Print

US Markets Live transcript 15 Jul 2011

Markets Live chat transcript for the chat ending at 15:05 on 15 Jul 2011. Participants in this chat were: Cardiff Garcia John McDermott Neil Hume, FT

CG
Goooood morning
CG
Morning @SilverFox
JM
GOOD MORNING!
CG
btw, if @milky isn’t here by 10:15, here’s getting zapped instantly upon arrival (hi nobby, nick)
CG
big morning, actually
CG
quite a lot happening
JM
Wait — We have a housing crisis
CG
yes we do
CG
of enormous importance
JM
4m homes foreclosed or in serious delinquency
JM
Important
CG
oh, right, that too
JM
Cardiff Garcia without a place to rest his hat
JM
Very important
CG
yes, well, that’s the one i was thinking of
CG
(hi A Reaader, praxis, JS)
JM
I spend enough time with this guy as it is
JM
Not sure I want him round the gaff
CG
cold
JM
Talking about core inflation all day
JM
Would be like a bad sit-com
JM
How’s the house hunting going?
CG
though we might have had a breakthrough this morning
JM
New York is kind of like a nursey rhyme
CG
found a shoe box ont he upper west side
JM
People living in shoes (boxes)
CG
and i use the term advisedly, as some shoe boxes would be offended at being compared against this apartment
JM
Or cupboards
JM
Living under bridges
JM
I hope you find a place
JM
Otherwise you’ll have to stay at mine
CG
should work out
JM
And then we’d be spending 24/7 together
JM
Like Alphaville’s very own Bert and Ernie
JM
Actually
CG
i’m more oscar the grouch
JM
That’s quite weird
JM
Anyway, speaking of housing difficulties….
JM
Shall we get to the US economy?
CG
let’s
JM
How shall we start?
JM
Debt ceiling or banks?
CG
banks!
JM
@montreal — morning
JM
LDT
JM
Everyone’s fav one cent dividend split stock
JM
Citigroup!
CG
indeed
CG
this morning
JM
Q2 results out this morning
CG
yes indeed
JM
Citigroup Reports Second Quarter 2011 Net Income of $3.3 Billion, Compared to $2.7 Billion in Second Quarter 2010

Earnings Per Share1 of $1.09 Versus $0.90 in Second Quarter 2010
Second Quarter 2011 Revenues of $20.6 Billion
Tangible Book Value Per Share1 up $1.88 from First Quarter 2011 to $48.75 and 16% over the Prior Year Period
Net Credit Losses Declined 35% from Prior Year Period to $5.1 Billion
Tier 1 Common of $115 Billion, Tier 1 Common Ratio of 11.6%
Citi Holdings Assets of $308 Billion, 34% Lower than Prior Year Period

CG
how is vikram’s jamie complex?
JM
Woah
JM
What does all that mean?
CG
yes, what’s happening in english, please?
JM
Well
JM
As expected
JM
They beat expectations
JM
(These “expectations” — nonsense)
CG
(praxis, we’ll have an update on that from london in htis session a bit later)
JM
So in English
JM
Let’s turn to the FT’s experts
JM
Overheard in the newsroom earlier
CG
another boost from lower credit loss provision, a la JPM yesterday?
JM
“These results are boring.”
JM
Hmmm
JM
Not helpful either
JM
But the stock is up 1.25%
CG
JPM rocked it because of ibanking fees, from what i saw, plus the loan loss issue, as expected
JM
So something must be going on
JM
ok, here we
JM
go
CG
credit conditions easing generally, i think
JM
This from Glenn Schorr at Nomura
CG
is the story
JM
(He of a Big Short cameo)
CG
right
JM
He’s a bit more positive on Citi’s balance sheet after all this
CG
(morning Whiskeyjack)
JM
(Which is the story — but as ever with Citi, watch out for some creative accounting)
JM
1Q11 EPS of $1.09 vs Our/Street Estimates of $1.05/$0.96
Puts & takes as always, but we think they net to be trending in the right direction for sure and think the stock is plenty cheap. On the issue side, we think sluggish trading, the high contribution to earnings from reserve release and asset gains + ongoing elevated expenses and lower tax rate will be top of mind for people. Fair enough, but we think the positives of loan & deposit growth (fueled by the non-US franchise), better credit (and much smaller mortgage tail), holdings shrinkage (assets & losses) and much better capital growth will drive the story. With book >$60 and tangible book almost $49, we think the stock will grind higher from here.
CG
@SilverFox makes an interesting point — says UK banks doing the same
CG
(my interpretation — is that right SF?)
JM
I went to a Sifma event on Wed about DFA
JM
And the adviser to the CEO of Credit Suisse
CG
saw that in your post earlier
JM
Said that 2/3 of the “phony war”
CG
@milky, just in time
JM
In RWA differences was down to accounting
CG
beat my arbitrarily assigned cutoff — we’ll get to debt ceiling, be patient
CG
RWA = risk weighted assets
JM
So on the whole Citi a positive story
JM
Positives in the Quarter
1) Total revenue +5% q/q; 2) TBV $48.75 (16% ann growth); 3) net credit losses -18% q/q; 4) $2bn reserve release, reserves still robust at 5.35%; 5) Int’l RCB revs in Asia, Latin America and EMEA up 12% y/y in aggregate to $4.8 billion, reflecting growth in virtually all significant consumer banking drivers; 6) Holdings asset -8.7% q/q to $308bn, loss shrunk to just $218mm; 7) DTA utilization & reduced deductions are helping accelerate capital generation – 1H11 net income was $6.3bn and DTA added $1.5 bn and lower threshold deductions added another $1.2 bn; and 8) $13bn in GIIPS exposure (ex-unfunded), ~$1bn in sovereign exposure not MTM.
JM
Right on cue Praxis
JM
See 8) above
JM
(Those are the positives from Schorr)
JM
@Scott — they’re all still coming in, many are delayed
JM
but banks have already started to respond, e.g. reducing prop trading desks
JM
sorry, meant replicating
JM
cos of the volcker rule
JM
But it’s not all good news for Citi
JM
Issues in the Quarter
1) NIM -6bps to 2.81% (down 3bps ex-FDIC assessment); 2) Expenses to remain elevated for rest of 2011 (revs down 9%, exp up 3% at the IB, +4% vs +5% at TS); 3) Rough trading as expected; equities -30% q/q, FICC -27%; 4) Gains on asset sales in the SAP contributed $500 mm; and 5) Citicorp revs -1% q/q
JM
More code
JM
From bank analysts
JM
Which in english means
CG
@Nobby, an intriguing thought — strange if markets ignore LLPs when they’re booked, get excited later about reserve releases. don’t think that appleis everywhere, but it’s something to mind
JM
Margins down, expenses up, trading anemic
JM
What else we got about the banks
JM
JPM was yesterday
JM
Dimon in sparkling form
CG
yes, like i said, big gains on ibanking fees, wonder if that’s sustainable — division booked some 2bn in net income
JM
“there have been so many flaws in mortgages that it’s been an unmitigated disaster.”
JM
3:19pm milky: Anyone know what the mechanic is for releasing the stress test results?
CG
said greece disaster wouldn’t have too big an impact on JPM
JM
@milky — they deposit them in a bomb proof box underneath the resichstag
JM
reichstag
CG
would cost the bank $3bn in worst case scenario
JM
and then they run away
JM
before merkel can catch them
JM
Back to US banks quickly
CG
well-played, JP: Emoticon
JM
JPM
JM
(Wow, my initials are the same as JPMorgan)
JM
(That’s not very interesting, move on…)
JM
Last thing
JM
What does Citi and JPM mean for GS and MS?
CG
yep, then the surrealist nightmare that is the debt ceiling
CG
good question
CG
the formerly pure i-banks
JM
KBW
CG
the banks formerly known as investment…banks
JM
nvestment Banking (GS/MS). Reported net income of $2.1 billion beat our estimate of $1.5 billion primarily due to higher revenues ($7.3B vs. $6.5B). The beat was primarily driven by higher-than-expected FICC results ($4.3B vs. $3.2B), down 18% q/q but compares favorably to our forecast for a 40% q/q decline for the group. Investment banking fees came in higher than expected at $1.9 billion ($1.8B expected) led by Advisory ($601M) and ECM ($455M) revenues. Private equity gains of $796 million compared favorably to our estimate. In general, this seems to be a positive for GS and MS but JPM has outperformed in FICC trading in the past quarters. Finally, the comp ratio came in at 35%.
CG
(thanks for posting that, Klepto)
JM
So — all good
JM
For ibanks
JM
At last
JM
We can all relax
CG
positive for GS and MS given FICC trading results
CG
okay
JM
But isn’t there something that could stop all this in its tracks?
JM
Like an impending financial catastrophe
CG
yes, otherwise known as the greatest unforced error in financial markets history
CG
or whatever martin wolf called it the other day
CG
(A Reader, got a note on GOOG, will post in a sec)
CG
so here’s where we stand — best coverage so far belongs to young klein at the WaPo
CG
unbelievably, we’ve got five deals on the table
CG
here they are
CG
The case for the first is that there are now five plausible deals on the table: The $4 trillion deal, the $2 trillion deal, a smaller deal — think around $1.5 trillion — that doesn’t include taxes or cuts to health spending, the McConnell deal, and the Reid/McConnell deal, which combines McConnell’s mechanism for raising the debt ceiling with about $1.5 trillion in spending cuts and an expedited process for considering further spending cuts. The House Republican leadership and elements of the conservative base have voiced support for the McConnell deal as a last resort, and they’ll presumably like the Reid/McConnell deal even better. But talk to the players in the process and the worried comparison you often hear is TARP: that was also must-pass legislation, and the first time it came to the floor, it failed. Many experts believe that failure played a significant role in worsening the financial crisis.
CG
and for those who haven’t bothered to work out
CG
what the convoluted mcconnell deal is
CG
well, it’s a remarkable display of cynicism-cum-ingenuity
CG
In a sentence, McConnell’s plan gives the president the power to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling unless Congress rebuffs him with a two-thirds majority. In a paragraph (as I understand it), the proposal goes like this. The president announces a plan to raise the debt ceiling and writes some nonbinding promise to cut spending. He passes that plan to Congress. Congress votes against it. The president vetoes. The plan goes back to Congress. Republicans still vote against it. Enough Democrats join the White House prevent an override. And by failing to override the president’s veto, Congress will succeed in approving a debt ceiling increase. This process will repeat itself three times before the end of 2012.
CG
(From the Atlantic)
CG
and of course
CG
S&P, after showing up early to the downgrade warning party, let moody’s steal its thunder and has now shown up late
CG
with this
CG
Standard & Poor’s still anticipates that lawmakers will raise the debt ceiling
by the end of July to avoid those outcomes. However, if the government is
forced to undergo a sudden, unplanned fiscal contraction–as a result of
Treasury efforts to conserve cash and avoid default absent an agreement to
raise the debt ceiling–we think that the effect on consumer sentiment, market
confidence, and, thus, economic growth will likely be detrimental and long
lasting. If the government misses a scheduled debt payment, we believe the
effect would be even more significant and, under our criteria, would result in
Standard & Poor’s lowering the long-term and short-term ratings on the U.S. to
‘SD’ until the payment default was cured.
CG
now puts chances of downgrade in the next 90 days at an even 50/50 (though i doubt it)
CG
and as for the long-term (then goog stuff)
CG
Congress and the Administration are debating various fiscal consolidation proposals. At the high end, budget savings of $4 trillion phased in over 10 to 12 years proposed by the Adminstration, (separately) by Congressional leaders, as well as by the Fiscal Commission in its December 2010 report, if accompanied by growth-enhancing reforms, could slow the deterioration of the U.S. net general government debt-to-GDP ratio, which is currently nearing 75%. Under our baseline macroeconomic scenario, net general government debt would reach 84% of GDP by 2013. (Our baseline scenario assumes near 3% annual real growth and a post-2012 phaseout of the December 2010 extension of the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts.) Such a percentage indicates a relatively weak government debt trajectory compared with those of the U.S.’ closest ‘AAA’ rated peers (France, Germany, the U.K., and Canada).

We expect the debt trajectory to continue increasing in the medium term if a medium-term fiscal consolidation plan of $4 trillion is not agreed upon. If Congress and the Administration reach an agreement of about $4 trillion, and if we to conclude that such an agreement would be enacted and maintained throughout the decade, we could, other things unchanged, affirm the ‘AAA’ long-term rating and A-1+ short-term ratings on the U.S.

JM
So….
CG
in other words, we’re at a standstill, five deals, essentially a split int eh republican house ranks between the wackjobs and the slightly less wackjob-ish
JM
@praxis makes a good point
JM
What is the drop dead date anyway?
CG
and by the way, do see cotterrill’s post just now — mutantdog is right, essentially
CG
depends on whom you believe
JM
Yup, that’s a top piece of work by JC.
CG
aug 2nd the original geithner estimation
CG
too many moving parts here
JM
Can I zap milky for asking me to do grunt work?
Warning to rude and abusive commenters – your ability to comment will be terminated immediately and permanently, without warning. Henceforth, FTAlphaville has instituted a One Strike and You Are Out policy. We’ve had enough. We are going to clean up these pixels once and for all.
CG
once the (bond market) freakout begins, it will be too late — btw, i still don’t think it will happen, but who knows
CG
nobby, july 22nd was, i think, a bluff by the white house
JM
nomura thinks the date is actually august 9th
CG
saying we need that much time between then and aug 2nd to get the bills to pass votes, etc..
CG
an effort to set an early deadline
JM
but if there isn’t a deal by august 2nd you can be sure things will start to freak out
CG
exactly
JM
@Nobby — sure, but the spending cuts aren’t actually due to come in until 2013
JM
That’s often missed
JM
The debt ceiling is divorced from the discussions
JM
Debt limit needs to increase to meet existing obligations
JM
Pols are using it as leverage for future cuts
CG
yes, otherwise can only fudn with existing revs, which are currently WAY beneath obligations — and don’t forget about all those bonds coming due in aug that may not roll over
CG
anyways
CG
on GOOG, something quickly
JM
Friday, July 15, 2011 10:26:36 AM RTRS – SPANISH 10-YEAR GOVERNMENT BOND YIELD ES10YT=TWEB RISES BACK ABOVE 6 PCT, UP 20 BPS ON DAY AT 6.09 PCT
CG
the rabble have made the bearish case
CG
jsut for a bit of balance, JPM is out today with the bullish
CG
will share now and let you lot decide
CG
or have a go at the analyst
CG
Importantly, we believe 2Q results provide further confirmation that the
company’s recent heavy investments in both core search and newer initiatives
are clearly paying off. Revenue growth has been strong in recent quarters, but the
market has been unwilling to give Google credit because the sustainability of that
growth has appeared uncertain to some and margins have deteriorated along the way.
However, we believe expectations for EBITDA margins have now re-based in
the mid-50%’s and the market will be increasingly comfortable with that level
of profitability given revenue growth around 30%. We note that incremental
EBITDA margins expanded for the 1st time in 2 years, and management also
indicated that its pace of hiring could potentially slow down in the near-term, which
bodes well for 2H11.
JM
@mutant_dog — but they aren;t skedded until 2013
CG
It is also increasingly apparent that Google is a more focused company under
new CEO Larry Page. Google’s management structure is streamlined, with 6 key
business heads reporting directly to Larry. That has improved decision making speed and made Google more nimble—not easy for a company with nearly 29,000 employees. Google is only investing heavily in businesses that can be multibillion dollar opportunities. Or as Larry put it, “ more wood behind fewer arrows.”
This focus has also translated into Google’s product set which we now believe is
becoming better integrated. We have long believed that Google products and
features benefit from a halo effect—i.e. the more you use the Chrome Browser,
Gmail, Google Docs, etc…, the more you would search on Google and use other
Google products. Android has helped tie the product suite together to some degree via mobile, but we believe Google+ could now enhance that integration and improve user engagement. It’s still early, but Google+ is off to a strong start with more than 10 million members
JM
though if you’re an economist that shouldn’t matter
JM
@Lorcan — ssup?
JM
Cardiff
CG
they’re digging the page era
CG
one more
CG
We are incrementally positive on Google shares coming out of 2Q earnings and
we’re raising our price target to $707. We believe strong revenue growth is
sustainable going forward, and though we’re not really modeling it much, we believe
the company could get some margin relief in the back half if hiring slows down.
Importantly, we believe the sentiment on Google was still pretty mixed going into
2Q earnings and the shares are likely under-owned, particularly by growth
participants. As we indicated in our sector launch report 2 days ago, high growth
in the broader market—and in tech in particular—is scarce. We believe Google
is on track to do close to $30 billion in revenue in 2011, and we don’t see many
companies that size growing revenue 30%. We’d be buyers of Google shares.
JM
Goog up 12.17% this morning
JM
The newsroom is very excited about clorox
CG
yes, what’s happening around here?
JM
Scratch the bleach
CG
the boss does a drive-by
JM
RTRS-GERMAN BUND FUTURES HITS FRESH SESSION HIGHS AT 129.14, UP 72 TICKS ON DAY
15:21 15Jul11 RTRS-GREEK/GERMAN 10-YEAR GOVERNMENT BOND YIELD SPREAD 73 BPS WIDER ON DAY AT 1,516 BPS
15:23 15Jul11 RTRS-EUROPE’S FTSEUROFIRST 300 <.FTEU3> FALLS 0.4 PCT AT 1,085.21 POINTS IN CHOPPY TRADE
15:26 15Jul11 RTRS-SPANISH 10-YEAR GOVERNMENT BOND YIELD RISES BACK ABOVE 6 PCT, UP 20 BPS ON DAY AT 6.09 PCT
15:36 15Jul11 RTRS-GREEK 2-YEAR GOVERNMENT BOND YIELDS UP MORE THAN 200 BPS ON DAY AT 35.36 PERCENT
CG
Neil, get over here on the left
CG
2-year, not 20 it says
JM
So it’s T-100mins until the stress test results
JM
Officially
JM
Euro is tanking in anticipation
NH
hi
NH
sorry having troubles with Chrome today
JM
This is a bullish time for scylla and charybids cliche writers
CG
btw, fresh from the twitter: “2q GDP estimate now down to 1.4%, from 1.6%, per @macroadvisers . It started the week at 2%”
NH
plug ins keep crashing
NH
Kleinmanwire is running a story in the banks stress tests
JM
Neil — what’s the skinny?
NH
he’s got a revelation on them
NH
every UK banks has passed
NH
UK banks have all passed European stress tests; results to be unveiled at 5pm by European Banking Authority. See goo.gl/ZhC0r
Gold Oil – little resources play, with assets in Peru, Colombia and Cuba. Not for the faint-hearted.
NH
Some ballpark results: Barclays has about 7.5pc core tier one capital under stress scenario; Lloyds well in excess of 7pc; and RBS about 6pc
CG
Lorcan hit us with that, Sky news report
NH
Here’s a scoop that I don’t expect to win me any awards for journalistic prescience: all of the major UK banks have passed the Europe-wide stress tests that will be published later today.

That will come as a relief to executives at and investors in Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds Banking Group, Royal Bank of Scotland and Standard Chartered. They will certainly be sitting more comfortably than some of their peers among the 91 banks across Europe which are being tested by the European Banking Authority (EBA).

JM
There you go Milky
NH
I have learned that Barclays will emerge with a core tier one capital ratio of about 7.5 per cent, while Lloyds has also registered a level well in excess of 7 per cent, according to people familiar with the banks’ results. Royal Bank of Scotland, which like Lloyds is backed by the Government, has emerged with a lower pass rate, set at 5 per cent by the EBA: I’m told that RBS scores in the region of 6 per cent core tier one capital by people close to the tests.

The tests are designed to instil greater confidence in European banks, although about a dozen are expected to have failed the tests and will be required to raise more capital by their national regulators.

Last year’s round of tests, conducted by the EBA’s predecessor body, was widely lambasted for the lack of rigour applied to banks’ balance sheets (although seven banks still managed to fail.

This time, banks must retain core tier one capital of more than 5 per cent after modelling based on criteria such as a 4 per cent fall in GDP and a one-third slump in the value of corporate real estate loans.

The results will be published in two hours time, when attention will focus on the exposure of each bank to the sovereign debt of struggling eurozone countries such as Greece and

“What do you read into those banks which just pass the test?,” an executive at one of the major UK banks said this afternoon.

Indeed, as last year’s stress tests showed with particular reference to Irish banks, narrowly passing the tests should not have provided any sort of relief to investors or governments.

NH
(Thanks Praxis – really annoying bug)
JM
But, to play the cranky professor, what are the assumptions?
CG
and to repeat
CG
from UK’s ML
CG
here’s Deutche with a fun warning
CG
* Markets are increasingly concerned about the lack of unity among European politicians in the face of the worsening sovereign debt crisis in the euro zone. The failure of the various measures taken so far to build confidence among investors has already pushed up the equity risk premium (ERP), on our calculations.

* We believe that a continuation of this trend is the primary risk that could see world stocks (the MSCI World index) lose up to 35% of their value if the situation deteriorates into a full-blown financial crisis on the scale of the fallout from the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008.

NH
35% fall
NH
EmoticonEmoticon
CG
* The majority of the fall in prices would come from a rise in the ERP to the peaks of March 2009. The rest would be a consequence of lower profitability resulting from the inevitable economic slowdown associated with a disorderly adjustment.

* On a milder scenario, under which the crisis is contained and does not spill over to the real economy, we would still expect the MSCI World to fall by around 12%. This has been our central expectation for some time and would be driven by a small and temporary rise in the ERP compared to our worst-case scenario. The temporary nature of the rise in ERP would provide equity investors with an attractive entry point, in our view.

* Prompt action from European authorities could avert this worst-case outcome, however. But the downside risks to our relatively mild scenario have undoubtedly increased recently.

* In the worst-case scenario, we would expect a significant underperformance of the financial sector (a fall of as much as two-thirds) and the financially levered sectors such as Utilities, Industrials, Telecoms and Consumer Discretionary. At a sector level, Healthcare, Consumer Staples and Energy are most protected under this scenario, we think. Operationally levered regions such as Asia, Japan and Europe would likely be worst impacted. We therefore favour the S&P and companies with healthy balance sheets.

CG
EmoticonEmoticonEmoticonEmoticonEmoticonEmoticonEmoticonEmoticonEmoticon
CG
2/3rds fall in financials
JM
Ouch
JM
Look at this
JM
Friday, July 15, 2011 10:43:21 AM RTRS – LIBYA’S REBEL OIL FIRM AGOCO HAS COMPLETED REPAIRS AT TWO OILFIELDS, READY TO START OIL PRODUCTION – TRADE PUBLICATION PETROLEUM ECONOMIST
JM
Friday, July 15, 2011 10:44:37 AM RTRS – REUTERS UNABLE TO IMMEDIATELY CONTACT AGOCO FOR COMMENT, CHECKING REPORT
JM
Sceptical.
JM
Important reminder from Lorcan there
JM
On the stress test – there is going to be ten pages on each bank, with 90 banks makes 900 pages to read. watch out for snap analysis..
CG
forget snap, i’ll wait for Lorcan’s analysis — then copy and paste it here
JM
As JC pointing out this morning
JM
The stress tests have a funny way of being
JM
Frontran by reality
CG
Consumer attitudes hit a wall in the middle of July, falling to the lowest level since March 2009.

The preliminary Reuters/University of Michigan index of consumer sentiment moved to 63.8, from 71.5 the month before. It had been expected to hit 71.0, and it will be revised at the end of the month.

The report’s preliminary current conditions index was 76.3 from 82.0, while the expectations index was 55.8 in July, from 64.8 last month.

CG
more bad news out of the US
JM
Ooh, a bit more US macro
CG
bugger! “3:47pm LorcanRK: @CG, you have to pay for my analysis these days :P
JM
Wait until the August 3 survey Emoticon
CG
yes, US stocks roughly flat, it seems
JM
Also, you can’t include your grumpy sentiment Cardiff
CG
there’s no emoticon for that
JM
Emoticon
JM
Shall we do a quick round the houses?
CG
about as close as it gets
JM
Some big movers on the S&P500
JM
Google up 11%+
JM
Energy companies the other huge movers
JM
pioneer, range, chesapeake, sw
JM
All up above 6%
CG
Yandex up 2.43% — that’s the “Russian Google” — wonder if there’s a spillover effect there
CG
or possibly something else
JM
Some conoco blowback there
CG
people getting more optimistic on search?
JM
Spin offs are the new black
JM
But let’s take a look at this
JM
@Nick — Emoticon
CG
@Nick wins Rabble comment of the year
JM
Clorox — up 6.42%
CG
(so far)
JM
Why?
CG
thanks mutant_dog — search up across the board then
JM
(Energy also BHP purchase news)
CG
@milky, a bit of levity never hurt anyone
JM
From Citi, re Clorox
JM
Icahn Bids for CLX — After acquiring a roughly 9% stake in CLX through a combination of stock and options in February 2011, Carl Icahn, through his Icahn Enterprises L.P., has made an offer to acquire the company at $76.50/share, valuing CLX at an equity value of approximately $10.2 billion. This represents a 12% premium to Thursday’s closing price, or a 21% premium to the price that CLX was trading at before Icahn disclosed his initial stake in the company in December.
CG
ah, there it is
JM
Carl Icahn in the house
JM
One FT journalist interviewed CI recently
CG
still depressed that Icahn never got his blog off the ground; the possibility was so tantalising
JM
CI may have been in the jacuzzi at the time
JM
(Unconfirmed)
JM
But Carl is teasing us
JM
“While we stand ready and able to buy Clorox, we encourage you to hold an open and friendly ‘go-shop’ sale process where all the synergistic buyers are offered due diligence and invited to bid,”
CG
(thanks praxis — haven’t looked at them since their IPO, but isn’t search still the big part of their rev model?)
JM
Taking one for the team, $10bn PE edition
JM
mutant_dog: Where’s the value in CLX ?
JM
Good question
CG
some skepticism here
JM
Here’s Citi
CG
from analysts
JM
Deal Seems Fair to Us — Assuming CLX meets our forecasts for fiscal 4Q11, Icahn has offered to pay roughly 2.4x sales and 11.5x EBITDA for the company. In the past, comparable transactions in the HPC industry have been valued at roughly 2.1x sales and 12.7x EBITDA, and as such, Icahn’s offer seems like a relatively fair price in our view, especially when we consider that (i) CLX’s business is mostly U.S.–centric (meaning that its sales growth is slower than average for the industry) and (ii) CLX has historically been one of the better-managed companies in our industry from a supply chain and efficiencies perspective (meaning that its profit margins, while perhaps somewhat depressed given the commodity cycle, are not materially below where they should be).
CG
In a letter to Clorox Chief Executive Donald Knauss, Icahn said he was confident the company could get “numerous superior bids” from large consumer products companies. He also said he has a “highly confident letter” from Jefferies & Co to provide financing for his proposed offer.

Icahn, known for pushing up the stocks in which he invests, said synergies resulting from any deal with a third-party strategic buyer could make even a $100-per-share offer viable to the likes of Procter & Gamble Co, Unilever , Colgate-Palmolive Co, Reckitt Benckiser Group Plc, Kimberly-Clark Corp, Henkel AG and privately-held SC Johnson.

Industry analysts were quick to shoot down such ideas, saying Clorox’s product lineup, which includes Kingsford charcoal and Hidden Valley salad dressing, is not the best fit for companies that already make household and personal goods and have largely stayed away from food and Clorox’s more commoditized categories such as cat litter and charcoal.

JM
@Silver_Fox — we’ve arrived
CG
of course, this also means the big bosses are watching
JM
V typical Icahn
JM
Stir the pot
JM
Try and encourage other buyers
CG
everyone on his best behaviour
CG
yes
JM
Bait and switch, with cigar in mouth
JM
It’s a bleach of a deal
JM
Gawd
JM
Moving on quickly
JM
Flir systems is down 10%
JM
By far the largest faller
JM
Cardiff
CG
sir
JM
Do you know it does?
JM
*what it does
JM
night-vision goggle maker
CG
ahem. why yes, of course, it’s “The World Leader in Thermal Imaging” http://www.flir.com/US/
JM
you may need them on the streets when you can’t find a place to sleep
CG
but why is it up today is the question
JM
(too harsh?)
JM
It’s a government cuts story
CG
or when i’m sneaking into your house to crash on the floor
CG
right, down i meant
JM
Q2 results reflected poor forecasts for govt spending on all these gadgets
CG
obama speaking now
JM
Should’ve made drones
CG
“we should not be this close to the august” deadline
CG
explaining that congress “has run up the credit card; now we have an obligation to pay our bills”
JM
(has also had some litigation issues in the past)
JM
(flir — not obama)
JM
(he was a constitutional lawyer)
CG
sounds like no deal yet — the breaking news here is that he’s talking
CG
so no breaking news
CG
mutantdog, us too actually
JM
it’s all a bit groundhog day over here
JM
shall we wrap this up?
JM
and cardiff
JM
guess what
CG
oh boy
JM
we didn’t talk about news corp once
JM
that should please the rabble
CG
not. a. single. time.
CG
well done
CG
rabble, we gotta go — i have an apartment to lock down
CG
have a great weekend
CG
same time, same place next week
JM
we’ll let you know if there’s a deal to stop debtageddon
JM
bye everyone — happy stress test reading
Print