Print

Markets live transcript 6 Jan 2009

Markets live chat transcript for the chat ending at 12:12 on 6 Jan 2009. Participants in this chat were: Paul Murphy, FT (PM) Neil Hume, FT (NH)

PM:
Hello!
PM:
Sorry we’re a minute late this morning
PM:
Welcome to Market Live, our daily markets chat.
PM:
Deep into the New Year now and Neil has still managed to keep his finger off the trigger.
NH:
No one been zapped – yet
NH:
althought Zoomy came very close yesterday with his childish comments
PM:
And I am still going to bed early, drinking less, etc etc – and nto getting angry with IT.
PM:
We reckon this is a record for us in terms of NY resolutions.
PM:
We should get on to market matter – but I meant to ask you Neil – what did you get for Xmas.
NH:
Not much…..
NH:
a pair of socks
NH:
a running top
NH:
Did you get your kids what was on their list – that you published here?
PM:
Some.
PM:
Actualy, that reminds me – heard of Kimya Dawson?
NH:
Er, no.
PM:
Tut tut. You are out of touch.
PM:
Kimya’s got a new album out called Alphabutt.
PM:
Thought Alphabutt a much better name than Alphaville.
NH:
Absolute arse.
PM:
Hahahaha. That’s v funny
PM:
We should use that.
PM:
When w e think something is questionable it can be Alphabutt.
PM:
I’ll get it put in as a system message.
PM:
Anyway…..
11:05AM
PM:
Where to first?
NH:
lots to choose from this morning
NH:
but I suppose we should go to the retailer first
NH:
get them out of the way
PM:
okay
NH:
although the GBK warrants a quick look
PM:
Where’s pound? In the toilet again.
NH:
On the contrary
NH:
We’ve got parity-delayed – as far as the euro is concerned
NH:
Had much weaker inflation data than expected
NH:
Eurozone inflation estimated at 1.6 per cent in December – against 2.1 per cent in November.
PM:
So suddenly everyone is talking about the size of the likely ECB cut yea? – a commenter suggested below yesterday that that was what we should have been running a competition on.
NH:
Precisely
NH:
And remember that there has been this simmering row at the ECB with the Cypriot guy arguing with a significant easing of policy.
PM:
Cypriot guy?
NH:
Papademos
NH:
Lucas Papademos – the ECB vice president.
PM:
Oh right
NH:
There’s been something of a war of words between him and Trichet – Trichet suggesting the euroland should wait and see the effect of cuts already implemented
PM:
Down 175bp to 2.5% so far.
NH:
Yes
PM:
So what do we expect the ECB to do? 50bp?
NH:
meeting next week
NH:
Here’s some quick research from Fortis — Nick Kounis
NH:
Eurozone inflation fell to 1.6% in December (consensus: 1.8%) down from 2.1% in November. This left it at the lowest level since October 2006. Sharp falls in energy and food price inflation were probably again the main driving forces. If oil prices remain at current levels, headline inflation is likely to continue to fall sharply, reaching a low of around 0.5% in June. It should move higher again in the second half of this year, as base effects become less favourable because of the sharp drop in oil prices seen in the second half of 2008. However, in the absence of a renewed surge in commodity prices, inflation will probably eventually settle comfortably below 2%, suggesting that the ECB has more room to cut interest rates. We
think that the Governing Council will bring the policy rate down to 1.5% by the middle of this year.
NH:
Here’s some more on the euro from Goldmans
NH:
While US equities traded lower on Monday on weak auto sales data and corporate profit concerns, it was another day of significant moves in FX. Most notably, we saw major moves in a number of Euro crosses, including a particularly large move lower in EUR/GBP. As we highlighted yesterday, the EUR TWI looks unsustainably strong, and we think the retracement in EUR/GBP, EUR/NOK, EUR/SEK and other Euro crosses has substantially further to run. Meanwhile, we saw commodity and EM currencies gain globally. $/CAD broke 1.20, and the next big tech level is 1.18. We are keeping a wide stop on our short $/CAD recommendation for now at 1.23.
PM:
Okay – so parity delayed for the GBK – not canceled
PM:
GBKEUR currently at 1.0956
PM:
Some mvoe
NH:
wow
NH:
had not realied its has gone that far
NH:
and yes Mr P at the ECB is actually Greek
PM:
Moving on…
11:11AM
PM:
How abotu retailers
PM:
Lots of news this morning
NH:
post Xmas trading updates have started
NH:
and as we suspected yesterday they are not too bad
NH:
in as much as they have met gloomy expectations
NH:
somewhat predictably that has triggered a relief rally in the two retailers that have reported – Next and Debenhmas
NH:
they are up 101p at £11.93 and 8p at 36.25p respectively
PM:
Big moves
NH:
And Debs is being helped by the fact there is still a big short position, apparently
NH:
one broker tells me short interest is 25%, but I have not checked that with DataExplorers
NH:
anyway back to the statements from Debs and Next
NH:
Debs is bang in line
NH:
18 weeks same store sales no worse than -3.5% and gross margins flat
NH:
and thanks to tough const controls profits are actually a little bit ahead of forecasts
NH:
of course debt remains a problem
NH:
there is around £1bn of it
NH:
and at the start of the conference call, Debs said they would not be talking about
NH:
debt, or equity cash calls
NH:
but today’s statement and price move
NH:
will help if they do want to tap the equity market for cash
NH:
and the fact that they don’t want to talk about a rights issues
NH:
suggests to me one is coming down the slip way
NH:
as for Next
NH:
its statement is also bang in line with expectations
NH:
sales were no worse than -7% LFL – which is line with guidance
NH:
PBT will be in line with forecasts
NH:
the outlook statement is very cautious, esp on margins but again that’s no surprise
NH:
everyone knows the retailers are going to be hammered by the impact of the cable rate
NH:
most of the stock they buy is dollar denominated
PM:
any analyst comment?
NH:
plenty
NH:
Better-than-expected numbers from Debenhams give management a strong
hand, if it decides that it needs a rights issue. As it is the debt problem that is
weighing on the valuation, then this is extremely helpful for the share price,
hence our upgrade from Sell to Hold and a tweaking up in our forecasts.
NH:
and here’s Caz on both
NH:
NXT.L, NXT LN, 1092p, Outperform, Sector – Overweight
- Next Retail sales for the five months to 24 December are down by 3.0% in total and are 7.0% lower lfl. This compares to our estimate of -6.0% lfl and the -4.4% reported at the Q3 IMS, implying a run rate of around -9% through November/December.
- Next Directory sales are 1.1% ahead
NH:
We would regard these as satisfactory sales numbers in the context of a deteriorating environment, heavy competitor discounting and Next’s policy of maintaining pricing discipline ahead of its normal post Xmas Sale, which started with 8% less stock than last year and where clearance rates are ahead, all suggesting a slight improvement in gross margin against expectations.
NH:
The statement indicates that full year PBT is expected to be in line with the company’s previous expectations and also current market consensus (cited as £415m to £435m). Given Next’s track record of conservatism we would look to reduce our £440m only minimally, to the top end of the range: £435m would produce EPS of c.160p. Anticipated year end net debt of £670m is as previously guided.
NH:
Next has reiterated that it is assuming negative lfl sales trends in FY10 and the updated outlook statement refers to expected margin pressures from the further £ weakness against the €. H1 is substantially hedged at rates which precede the recent bout of £ weakness and hence any margin pressure – where the whole industry faces a tactical judgement as to the merits of absorbing COGS pressures rather than increasing prices – will principally affect H2. We may reduce our FY10E PBT estimate of £420m (EPS: 155p) somewhat more than pro-rata to the FY09 adjustment to allow for the current £/€ position.
NH:
On a PE basis Next looks the lowest rated of the larger retailers and in our view with a well protected P&L, and there is little we can see in this update to prevent further upside in the stock.
NH:
and Debs
NH:
Debenhams – DEB.L, DEB LN, 28.75p, In-Line
- The IMS covers the 18 weeks to 3 January, with total sales +0.6% and lfl sales down by 3.5% (estimate -3.0%). This compares with -4.2% lfl in the first 6 weeks of H1, and thus includes an lfl decline of 3.3% in the last 12 weeks.

NH:
- While Debenhams appears to have been in intensive promotional mode, the gross margin is nevertheless flat (in line with our full year assumption), in part reflecting a higher proportion of own bought sales, and both EBITDA and PBT (NB which is widely expected to fall for the full year) are ahead of last year, implying strong cost control. Stocks closed 7.3% below last year, also with net debt ‘significantly lower’, all suggesting a success with the strategy of streamlining the number of product lines.

NH:
- Pending the conference call at 10.30am, we would not expect to change our existing FY09E PBT estimate of £92.5m (EPS: 8.1p).

- While today’s announcement does not radically mitigate the refinancing issue looming by 2011, it is certainly a much better outcome than might have been feared, i.e. profit downgrades and worries over covenant breaches, etc, hence we would expect the shares to trade higher even after yesterday’s rally.

PM:
thanks for that
NH:
on probs
NH:
most people I speak are still bearish on the retailers
NH:
we get a Jan bounce as the statements hold up
NH:
after a last hurrah from the UK consumer
NH:
and then it all gets nasty
NH:
the cable rate will hammer them
PM:
Well, the euro’s strenght has actually helped in the shrot term
PM:
London is full of the French picking up ultrabargains i the sales
PM:
But that won’t last
PM:
Im with you on the point of some short term relief followed by much pain
PM:
had the chance of travelling thru Lewisham at the weekend
PM:
Looked like a bomb had hit the place
PM:
Like Hull or somewhere in the early 80s
PM:
half the shop fronts boarded up
NH:
as an antidote to all the good news in the retail sector
NH:
just got this from Experian
NH:
One in 10 shops in the U.K. will be empty by February as retailers struggle for survival during the recession, credit-tracking group Experian forecast Tuesday.
U.K. vacancy rate on the high street will rise to 10% from 7% in February, resulting in a total of 90,000 vacant outlets, according to Experian.
NH:
“Vacancies will occur as costs overcome retailers forcing a combination of store disposals, administrations and branch network rationalizations. The pattern of vacancies is not expected to be uniform, as smaller market towns are likely to be worst affected,” Experian said.
By the end of 2009, Experian expects vacancy rates to rise to 15% – a total of 135,000 outlets – the highest ever recorded vacancy rate for the U.K.
NH:
Experian’ Director of Retail Consultancy Jonathan de Mello said: “The unprecedented level of retail vacancy will be disproportionately spread across Britain, so that smaller retail destinations, in particular market towns across Britain, will be worse affected.”
The loss of major players such as Woolworths Group PLC will “leave a significant gap in these towns and is likely to have a knock on effect with other retailers,” he said in a statement.
PM:
So, short Libert Int, British Land and anyone else with big holdings of shoppping centres
NH:
yup
NH:
although Liberty Int has enjoyed a pop this morning
NH:
up 31.5p at 539p
PM:
there you go — rude to pass than chance up
NH:
and they probably need to raise cash
NH:
due to loan to value covenants
11:22AM
NH:
got some more stuff onm Debs
NH:
from the meeting
NH:
and their refusal to talk about debt, which is sort of central to the investment case
PM:
NH:
Plenty of congratulatory remarks from those on the call but question marks remain over debt – August 2009 net debt was £925m, consensus August 2010 is £930m for the end of the year. On the capital raise, management will not comment on this or on where the rumours came from. When asked whether the dividend would be maintained, management said that the board would discuss it ‘at the appropriate time’.
NH:
Gave a breakdown of trade on a monthly basis- November trade ‘ok’. December, one poor week, others ok. January has been pretty strong.
NH:
Moving 400,000 sq ft to own bought, which will result in c.80% of space own bought. Own bought sales grew 3.6% in the reporting period.

1% increase in ASPs, mainly mix related (Designers at Debenhams effect).

NH:
Currency- hedged against the dollar for around 18 months at around 1.90- better than most. There should be some movement (in local prices) dowards, but not enough to offset the impact of the dollar for most.

Stock position clean across the board. Want to invest more in childrenswear. Online (+c.40%) could have been better if site had not crashed during promotion.

Westfield has performed very well- new stores generally do.

PM:
cheers for that
11:24AM
PM:
Moving on — cos we’re being dead efficient today…
PM:
How about the wider market?
NH:
the post Xmas rallies continues
NH:
FTSE 100 through 4,600
NH:
currently up 47 points at 4,626
11:26AM
PM:
Ooh, we’ve got to go back to retail for a mo
PM:
Just noticed a piece on Reuters about Debs
PM:
Dep ceo michael sharp is talking about a new breed of shopper…
PM:
The Recessionista
PM:
NH:
OMG
PM:
Looking for quality, durability and style of deisgner clothes but with a ….
PM:
…wait for it….
NH:
so we are being asked to believe that people are trading down from Gucci and the like to John Rocha at Debs
NH:
Come on
PM:
“chicenomic” price tag
PM:
Chicenomics
PM:
i think we might come back to that
11:28AM
NH:
back to the market and this post Xmas
NH:
which seems unstoppable
NH:
and on the basis everyone I talk to says it has gone too far
NH:
and market makers, or liquidity providers as they are now called, don’t have any stock
NH:
then this dead cat could continue bouncing
NH:
and we should also note with interest the moves in the government bond market
NH:
now, some market watchers were saying yesterday
NH:
that the rally was not justified because volumes were weak
NH:
and government bonds were still sporting a flight to quality premium
NH:
in fact take a look at this from Monument Securities
NH:
If equity markets were justified last week in discounting economic recovery,
government bonds should not be sporting flight-to-safety premiums. There
would be a glaring inconsistency in believing that economic prospects were
so frightening as to justify acceptance of a yield below 2.50% on 10-year US
Treasury notes, while at the same time expecting the global economy to stage
a recovery in the foreseeable future. To be sure, government bonds have
adjusted over the past few sessions.
NH:
Now, US govt bonds are still carrying this flight to safety premium
NH:
only less so than a week ago
NH:
So, treasury 30-year bonds fell the most in seven weeks overnight
NH:
yield exceeded 3% for the first time since Dec 15
NH:
the yield on the 10-year note climbed 12 basis points to 2.46 percent. Five-year note yields rose two basis points to 1.67 percent.
NH:
now, this could all be due to the fact that there is a lot of issuance state side this week
NH:
and it will be very interesting to see what demand it meets with
PM:
what sort of numbers are we taking about?
NH:
$54bn of notes due to be issued
PM:
goodness
PM:
interesting
PM:
should try and keep tabs on
NH:
indeed
NH:
while we are on the subject of bonds
NH:
trying to get hold of a note on from BarCap this morning
NH:
looks very interesting
NH:
here are some of the highlights
NH:
*BARCLAYS SAYS 10-YEAR YIELD MAY RETEST 2 PERCENT OR BELOW
*BARCLAYS SEES SOME PRICE GAINS AHEAD BEFORE `SIGNIFICANT TOP’
*BARCLAYS SEES RISK OF `UNRULY UNWIND’ OF LONG POSITIONS IN 1Q
*U.S. 10-YEAR BOND MARKET BECOMING `BUBBLE LIKE,’ BARCLAYS SAYS
NH:
in fact I think I now have the note
NH:
Bryce has just sent it over
PM:
Ah useful
NH:
March 10s
Short term: Further selling – As mentioned in December and shown above, we believe bond markets in the US are
becoming bubble like and the risk for an unruly unwind of long positions grows as Q1 advances. As shown above,
bond bullish sentiment is at record readings. However, we believe there are still further price gains ahead before a
significant top is in place (retest of 2.00% and below in yield). Short term, the recent backing up of yields likely
continues, ideally, deeper towards 2.70-2.80% (previous fourth) before a stronger yield top, price bottom is in place.
Resistance lies at 2.23% (overlap) but closer to the mark, we look for selling pressure between 2.35-2.40%.
Medium term: Neutral – A retest of 2.00 or marginally below.
NH:
March 5s
Short term: Steepening – The market left a small bullish reversal in place as 5s10s and the curve generally continue to
steepen. While this should help keep the selling more subdued in 5s versus 10s since the steepening looks likely to
continue short term, we look for 5s to target closer to 1.85-1.90% before topping out in earnest. Overall, the bull
trend remains (only three waves off the December yield low) but we believe this correction has further to bearishly
run. In futures, resistance should be found between 119-02/09, and we ideally look for the market to push closer to
the mid-117 area before a stronger potential base.
Medium term: Neutral – A retest of 1.17% or marginally below.
NH:
actually not quite as good as I though
PM:
okay — ta anyway
11:34AM
NH:
sorry we have just been distracted by something on Aig
NH:
Hank Greenberg agitating again
NH:
questions the sale of HSB to Munich RE
NH:
this guy will just not go gracefully
NH:
after all the turmoil he has helped caused one would have thought a little humility was in order
PM:
hmm
11:35AM
PM:
Just abnother shortie — ABev — or whatever they are called this week — are shutting the London Stag brewery in London
PM:
Ever heard of Stag bitter?
PM:
I havent — but plenty of jobs going
11:36AM
NH:
actually should say here
NH:
that the London market is being supported by the miners this morning
NH:
bigish moves in the sector
RIO TINTO (RIO:LSE): Last: 1,842, up 108 (+6.23%), High: 1,856, Low: 1,732, Volume: 2.56m
Xstrata (XTA:LSE): Last: 855.50, up 62.5 (+7.88%), High: 859.00, Low: 790.50, Volume: 3.49m
Randgold Resources (RRS:LSE): Last: 2,898, up 120 (+4.32%), High: 2,950, Low: 2,764, Volume: 127.06k
NH:
one reason for the move could rumours that the Chinese are poised to take advantage of the dip in prices to buy into the sector
NH:
and here’s what started it, I think
NH:
from our paper this morning
NH:
China looks set to expand its mining and metals holdings in developed economies, industry analysts and executives claim, as global mining companies in financial distress search for cash-rich, long-term investors.
China has focused its overseas resources acquisitions in the world’s least-developed countries – such as copper concessions in the Democratic Republic of Congo – but could now be poised to expand its reach into Canada, Australia and mining companies in other countries.
NH:
“The Chinese realise there are massive opportunities in the market,” said Keith Spence, president of Global Mining Corp, a China-focused resource investment company.
“A year ago, they were going to Africa to acquire early-stage development assets. But now they are looking for larger tonnage, longer life, later-stage assets. There is less of an emphasis on emerging markets, because now there is choice.”
NH:
and brokers tell me the market has also got a push from this very bullish note out of Goldman Sachs this morning
NH:
We expect the S&P 500 to rise 22% in 2009 to our year-end target of 1100.
NH:
Economic assumptions
1. US economy will grow by -1.6% in 2009 and +1.3% in 2010.
2. Short-term interest rate (Fed Funds) will remain between 0% and 0.25% throughout 2009.
3. Business fixed investment will grow by -12.7% in 2009 and -7.6% in 2010.
4. Consumer spending will grow by -1.7% in 2009 and 1.2% in 2010.
5. Housing prices fall an additional 15% from current levels.
PM:
Yes,was reading that — 90 odd pages
NH:
and some eye-catching equations in there
NH:
including a reverse equity risk premium
NH:
can we paste
PM:
Was inverting the dividend discount model actually
PM:
Difficult to post here
PM:
P D
+
+
+
+ +
+
=
P Current Price 0 =
1
interim 1 = * *(1+ )n−
n D α EPS g
Current 3 Yr Average Payout Ratio interim α =
g = Implied Growth Rate
terminal
terminal
terminal PE
R ERP g f + −
=
α
terminal
terminal
terminal 1
ROE
g α = −
f ROE = ERP + R terminal
ERP = Equity Risk Premium
= 5 Year Bond Yield f R
*(1 ) *(1 ) terminal
4
terminal 1 EPS = EPS + g + g
g = Implied Growth Rate (variable being solved for)
Long Term GDP Growth Inflation terminal g = +
k Cost of Equity R * (ERP) e f = = + β
= 5 Year Bond Yield f R
β = Beta
ERP = Equity Risk Premium
NH:
hmmm, that didn’t quite qork
PM:
er, no
PM:
Some nice bubble charts — will try and post some later
11:41AM
PM:
BTW Neil – I meant to congratulate you on smoking out this Aberdeen Asset Management deal – confirmed yesterday – buying Credit Suisse’s asset management biz.
NH:
Oh yes, forgot that.
PM:
Aerdeen’s stock at 123p after that
NH:
revealed on the last trading day of 2008
NH:
so CS could book a thumping loss in their 08 accounts
PM:
here’s a quick bit of research from Singer on that deal
PM:
The prime motivation for the acquisition was to enhance Aberdeen’s financial strength and scale in a challenging market in our view. The deal will be significantly EPS enhancing (+20-33% in FY’10) without further cost reductions. We raise our target price to 140p (+40%) but given the price move since the announcement, we lower the rating from Buy to Fair Value.

Aberdeen announced (on 31 December) the acquisition of £40bn (CHF 75bn) of AUM from Credit Suisse. Consideration will be satisfied through the issue of a maximum of 240m new shares in Aberdeen giving CS a stake of up to 25% in the enlarged entity. This valued the deal at £250m at Aberdeen’s pre-deal closing price. The final number of shares issued will depend on the level of revenues delivered at the closing date of the acquisition which should be by 30 June 2009. This will not be adjusted for market moves but will reflect any net fund redemptions prior to completion.

The acquired businesses have associated run-rate revenues of £118m (CHF 220m) and are expected to operate at a marginal cost:income ratio of 35-40%. This implies that the purchase price amounts to an equivalent P/E of around 4.5-5x. As such, the deal will significantly enhance EPS in year end September 2010 by around 20-33% depending on the level of revenues at the time of completion (and the current CHF:GBP exchange rate).

While the CS businesses currently employ some 550 staff, these numbers will be reduced (at CS’s cost) and no offices/systems are being acquired. As such, the marginal cost:income ratio is expected to be just 35-40% highlighting the benefits of consolidation. A £25m charge will be taken by Aberdeen this year of which £15m reflects the costs of the transitional services agreement with CS.

Our forecasts have been adjusted to reflect the deal completing at end June 2009 assuming that around 80% of the assets are transferred and a 40% cost:income ratio is achieved. Although GBP has depreciated against CHF some 17% since the disclosed figures were used (suggesting further upside) we have not adjusted for this in our proforma forecasts. On our revised September 2010 estimates, the shares are trading on 10.4x EPS, a premium to the sector average (9x). Aberdeen will be the largest quoted fund manager by assets and benefits from scale and diversity of assets by both type and geography. We upgrade our price target to 140p reflecting a premium but lower our rating from Buy to Fair Value.

NH:
thannks for that. Martin Gilbert the CEO of Aberdeen
NH:
has done a good deal here
NH:
the terms can be changed if there is a big drop in revs in the business he is buying
NH:
which is just as well
NH:
as £16bn of the £40bn of assets Aberdeen are buying are money market funds
NH:
I think this could be a new area for them
NH:
and as mentioned on the blog in recent weeks
NH:
these funds aren’t making a lot of money at the moment
NH:
in fact some are closing
PM:
sure
11:45AM
PM:
You know we have got this far with out mentioning either banks or house prices
PM:
NH:
and both must be tackled
PM:
nationwide figs out this morning
PM:
Sam did a funny note on that
PM:
Drawing some knowing comments for readers — specifically if we have only just returned to trend, then the immediate outlook must be very bad indeed
PM:
Here’s some Howard Archer stuff on the nationwide figs
PM:
The Nationwide reported that house prices plunged 2.5% month-on-month in December, thereby completing a dismal year. December’s decline of 2.5% confirmed that November’s surprisingly small drop of 0.4% was just a blip in the recent sharp drops in house prices, and was not the beginning of a moderating trend. Consequently, house prices ended 2008 15.9% lower than they started the year, and were also down 17.7% from their October 2007 peak of £186,044 on the Nationwide measure.

The Nationwide data follow on from the Halifax reporting that house prices plunged by 2.2% month-on-month in December and by 16.2% year-on-year in the three months to December. Furthermore, house prices were down 18.9% year-on-year in December itself.

PM:
2009 looks certain to see another sharp drop in house prices as the fundamentals remain largely unfavourable. A powerful set of negative factors weighing down on the housing market stem from ongoing very tight credit conditions, still relatively stretched housing affordability on a number of measures, sharply rising unemployment, muted income growth, widespread expectations that house prices are likely to fall a lot further and an unwillingness of many people to commit to buying a house when the economic outlook and job prospects look so bad. It is still very difficult for many people to get a mortgage or find the required larger deposit. Even if government measures to get banks to step up their lending increasingly take effect, it will clearly take time for confidence to improve and mortgage lending to pick up significantly. These factors are likely to continue to outweigh the beneficial impact of lower mortgage interest rates resulting from the Bank of England slashing interest rates, particularly as it is still very difficult to get a mortgage.

PM:
We expect house prices are likely to fall by a further 15% in 2009. This would take them down to £130,091 at the end of 2009 on the Nationwide measure. Another 5% drop in house prices is expected in the first half of 2010, taking them down to a low of £123,586, which would be 34% below their October 2007 peak level of £186,044. House prices are then seen flattening out in the latter months of 2010.

Meanwhile, the ongoing deep problems of the housing market maintains pressure on the Bank of England to deliver another deep interest rate cut on Thursday, although mortgage lenders are likely to be increasingly unwilling to pass on much of any further interest rate cuts.

NH:
and so we move on to the banks
11:48AM
PM:
any impact from the FSA short selling move?
NH:
nothing meaningful, but that’s not surprising because the ban does not end until Jan 16
NH:
only then will the monsters of Mayfair be unleashed on the banking sector
NH:
as it happens the sector is flat to lower
Lloyds TSB Group (LLOY:LSE): Last: 120.90, down 4.8 (-3.82%), High: 126.30, Low: 120.60, Volume: 12.77m
Royal Bank of Scotland Group (RBS:LSE): Last: 51.40, down 1.1 (-2.10%), High: 53.90, Low: 50.90, Volume: 14.77m
Barclays PLC (BARC:LSE): Last: 160.50, down 0.5 (-0.31%), High: 163.50, Low: 157.10, Volume: 5.67m
HBOS (HBOS:LSE): Last: 67.00, up 1.2 (+1.82%), High: 67.80, Low: 66.20, Volume: 8.24m
HSBC Holdings plc (HSBA:LSE): Last: 675.25, down 3.75 (-0.55%), High: 681.75, Low: 669.50, Volume: 3.54m
NH:
obviously some people will be selling as they are worried about the ban
NH:
and Lloyds is weak because some brokers think there could be an arb on in the deal with HBOS
NH:
I am not sure there is much of a window for that, as we shall discuss later
NH:
anyway, some of the price moves are also being driven by this note out of Citi this morning
PM:
Yes I glanced at that
PM:
a weighty tome from Simon Samuels
NH:
yup
NH:
and it asks the question most of the market wants answered
NH:
are banks cheap?
PM:
and the answer

?

NH:
superficially yes
NH:
but in reality no
NH:
Despite trading at 0.9x 2009E price to tangible book, the risk of banks making retained losses and raising more capital may not be fully priced in yet.
NH:
Mr Samuels’ preferred valuation metric is price to tangible book value
NH:
and the note explores how cheap banks are on this measure to previous crises
NH:
such as 1930’s depression in the US, Japan’s “Lost Decade” in the 1990’s, and Hong Kong’s deflationary period following the late 1990’s Asia crisis
NH:
So, if we see a re-run of Hong Kong 1990 – which is very unlikely IMO
NH:
then one can just about make a valuation case, according to Mr Samuels
NH:
for anything else
NH:
well, just avoid the banks
NH:
here’s the executive summary
NH:
Given how far — and how fast — the bank sector has fallen in the last 18
months, it’s inevitable that investors are asking if genuine value has now
emerged. This sentiment is understandable — optically, the sector appears very
cheap, currently trading at around 0.9x 2009E tangible book. Yet we are still
cautious.
NH:
First, given that half the sector trades at or below tangible book value,
further capital raisings have the potential to be significantly dilutive. This is a
very real threat given how thinly capitalised the sector (still) is and the
potential scale of the macro-economic challenges it faces.
NH:
Furthermore, we anticipate substantial earnings weakness in 2009, as a result of increased bad debt provisions (unsurprisingly), but also from weaker pre-provision profits. To make matters worse, a short, sharp economic contraction followed by a swift bounce back in earnings is looking increasingly unlikely. As such, it is harder
than ever to look through the current problems and begin to discount a recovery
into valuations.
NH:
Finally, we suspect that the lessons of the credit crunch —
banks can and do go bust (or at least equity holders can get wiped out) — may
result in a structurally higher beta for the sector in the forthcoming years,
limiting the potential for a sustained re-rating.
NH:
With this in mind, this short note asks a simple question: how cheap are banks
in the context of previous financial crises? To do this, we subject the sector to
the earnings and balance sheet stresses experienced by banks during the
1930’s depression in the US, Japan’s “Lost Decade” in the 1990’s, and Hong
Kong’s deflationary period following the late 1990’s Asia crisis.

NH:
If we have a repeat of Hong Kong’s experience (the mildest of the three), then we can
perhaps begin to build a value case for a handful of banks. But the risks remain
heavily skewed to the downside. If we see a repeat of something worse than
Hong Kong, then — adjusted for the ensuing earnings and balance sheet
damage — the sector still appears to be valued at an expensive 1.5x – 1.7x
price-to-tangible-book. We remain underweight the European bank sector.
PM:
thanks for that
11:53AM
PM:
just going back to the shorting bad for a moment
PM:
obviously this is a good thing
PM:
and a surprise
PM:
I think most of the market expected to the ban to be extended
PM:
but what are the consequences
NH:
well,
PM:
(ban — not bad)
NH:
some broker are looking at the opportunity to arb the Lloyds/HBOS deal
NH:
here’s the thinking
NH:
the spread is fairly wide
NH:
around 16% at the moment
NH:
and as the government will move heaven and earth to get done
NH:
one could lock that in
NH:
but others tell me there won’t be an opportunity
NH:
We’ve been thinking a bit more on the lifting of the ban – doesn’t make much of a difference with hbos/lloy –

You’ve got about a 14% spread at the mo – last day of trading for Lloyds (provided all goes thru ok) is the 14th, prior to short sell close, so I don’t think its going to get arbd in massively before then – Hedgies may stay away from now – but if you were a long only manager holding Lloyds I’d advocate the switch…….

One fly in the ointment is the pension fund news out over the last couple of days… could muck up life a little

PM:
hadnt realised it closed so soon
NH:
yep
NH:
Scheme hearing on the 12th
Last day of trading on the 14th
Court hearing to confirm capital reduction on the 16th (same as ban ends)
Delisting on the 19th
PM:
No realistic chance then
NH:
welcome back Monty
NH:
as ever, interesting stuff
NH:
and might explain why Lloyds are weak
NH:
and on that note
NH:
DB are advising clients to sell Lloyds this morning
NH:
Consultation paper CP 09/1 today. The paper, which invites comments from
interested parties by 9 January 2009, gives the FSA’s proposals in respect
of bank and insurance stock short selling ahead of the scheduled expiry on
16 January 2009 of the original short selling ban.
NH:
Disclosure requirements extended to June 2009, short selling prohibition
to expire on 16 January 2009

Though the purpose of the consultation paper is to invite comment from
interested parties to be taken into account in reaching a final decision, the
FSA have made their current thinking clear in the document. The FSA proposes
that current disclosure requirements in respect of short positions
remain in effect until June 2009, but with parties only required to disclose
changes to short positions in excess of 0.1% over the 0.25% threshold.
Most importantly, the FSA proposes allowing the current ban on short selling
to lapse on 16 January – though naturally the Authority retains the right
to reinstate the ban should it deem this appropriate.

NH:
Most downside in Lloyds TSB, most upside in Barclays
As outlined in our 2 January 2009 sector strategy note, “The year of the
borrower” , we remain cautious on the UK banks space given our fears over
the impact of lower corporate credit availability on unemployment and loan
losses. We see Lloyds TSB (Sell, TP 110p) as most vulnerable to these
trends, mostly as a consequence of its planned HBOS acquisition. We identify
greater risks around HSBC and RBS of our Holds. We believe Barclays
is best positioned given its relatively low exposure to commercial property
and low LTV UK mortgage portfolio in particular (Buy, TP250p).
PM:
re HBOS and the chance of further writedowns
PM:
case looks clear — but how does it sit against the fact that when the FSA stress-tested the whole sector back in Sept/Oct the resultant capital raising was supposed to cover armagedon?
PM:
The FSA told me that directly
NH:
yeah, but since then we had a shocking trading update in Dec
PM:
So what? Lloyds told us that was anticipated
NH:
yeah, right
NH:
it was certainly a surprise to the market
12:01PM
NH:
right back to the short selling stuff
NH:
some more comment
NH:
this from RBS
NH:
Should be good news for bank sector volumes & liquidity & so hopefully commissions; bad news for bank share prices for those who believe our view that the domestic UK banks have further to fall. Reiterate sell Lloyds/HBOS. Also, worth noting that HBOS is trading at a 16% discount to the implied Lloyds offer price (0.605x Lloyds at £1.26 implies £0.76 for HBOS vs close £0.66) – there is a useful risk arbitrage opportunity here, though our risk arb desk tells us that 16% is not out of line with recent transactions in other sectors
NH:
As an aside, the chart attached shows performance in the US bank sector from the announcement of the short ban to its lifting, as well as subsequent performance. Doesn’t appear to have helped either way, and recent suggestions from the SEC head, Christopher Cox, that the ban was in fact counter-productive due to its liquidity drainage, helps support the argument for ending it in the UK.

PM:
actually, this consultation paper
PM:
have we looked at it?
NH:
we couldn’t last night, as the link the FSA provided did not work
NH:
fortunately it seems to have been fixed this morning
NH:
and there are a couple of interesting pars
NH:
which will annoy some readers
NH:
this is the link
NH:
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/cp/cp09_01.pdf
NH:
the relevant pars
NH:
We have been monitoring compliance with the Ban and consider that it has resulted in preventing short selling in the affected stocks, other than in the permitted
circumstances (for example by market makers).We recognise that the Ban may have
had some impact in terms of reducing liquidity and widening bid/offer spreads in the
stocks but we do not consider that there has been a significantly deleterious effect
on market quality.
NH:
However, the ban was introduced to deal with particular circumstances prevailing in
the autumn and we consider that these have now changed. Market conditions have
become less extreem and, in the intervening period, various policy measures have
also been taken to strengthen the position of the financial sector.We therefore
believe the risks posed by short selling in terms of the potential for market abuse
and creating disorderly markets have declined.
NH:
Accordingly taking the various factors into account, we consider that the Ban can be allowed to expire on 16 January 2009. However, we will keep the position under review and stand ready to re-introduce the Ban if we think there is a need to do so. This may involve further urgent action without consultation.
NH:
Benefits
NH:
4.5 An extension of the Disclosure Obligation beyond the duration of the Ban could
partially address some of the short selling concerns identified above:
NH:
Market abuse: While we accept that in current market conditions short selling in UK
financial sector companies is no longer in itself to be regarded as abusive, short
selling strategies can still be employed to conduct market abuse. The Disclosure
Obligation could help to detect abusive short selling in the relevant stocks by
helping to identify all significant short positions in them. As the UK does not operate
a short selling flagging regime, identification of significant short sales would
otherwise be extremely resource-intensive. However, we recognise the limits to these
benefits, as abusive short sellers might operate below the 0.25% disclosure
threshold, or fail to comply with the Disclosure Obligation.

NH:
4.7 Price over-shooting: A disclosure regime requiring notifications on an individual
level can help to mitigate the risks of price overshoots and disorderly markets. The
Disclosure Obligation would encourage market participants engaging in significant
short selling to review their trading strategies as their positions approach the
applicable disclosure threshold, and would discourage further short selling for those
market participants reluctant to disclose their positions. It should be noted that, to
the extent that the Disclosure Obligation will lead to a reduced level of short selling,
it will also have negative impacts on market efficiency and liquidity. However, the
benefits, in terms of reducing price overshoots and aggressive and/or abusive short
selling, can outweigh the costs in terms of impaired market efficiency. For this to
happen, the disclosure threshold has to be set at the right level.
NH:
4.8 Market transparency: The Disclosure Obligation enhances transparency by
disclosing to the market the size of significant short positions and the identity of
significant short sellers in the relevant stocks. This provides insight into short sellers’
price movement expectations and can improve pricing efficiency (if the information
is correctly interpreted). There is a finely balanced argument about whether these
potential benefits of individual disclosure of short positions can actually outweigh
the costs (i.e. potentially reduced liquidity/efficiency and herding effects).
NH:
sorry to go on about this
NH:
but a few brokers have been touch
NH:
their point is that yes, the ban has been lifted but the new disclosure rules are pretty onerous
NH:
reporting every 0.1% increase
NH:
not only is this a pain
NH:
it will cost
NH:
and may deter hedgies from putting on the trade
NH:
in fact that FSA have done some cost analysis stuff in the paper
NH:
if anyone is interested
12:06PM
PM:
Anything else before we go?
NH:
(praxis – it is. make it is difficult as possible)
NH:
Man Group has had a big move
NH:
up 36.5p at 281p
NH:
a gain of almost 15%
NH:
some upgrades around
NH:
and it looks to me as if the company might have been guiding forecasts higher
PM:
Really basis??
NH:
well, on the basis that its flagship fund – AHL
NH:
is performing well and continues to make money
NH:
and that means it is still getting performance fees
NH:
of course before Xmas everyone was worried that Man was now overly dependent on AHL
NH:
flying on one engine was how one analyst put it
NH:
but the mood seems to have changed
NH:
here’s what Jason Streets at Evolution Securities published this morning
NH:
Upgrading our Man forecast for FY09e, as we are today, is symptomatic of how Man is part of the hedge fund industry but also strikingly different from its now tattered perception. AHL continues to make money and produce the uncorrelated performance that HF investors seek. While the overall picture is not uncloudy, the valuation seems to be looking at the black side and ignoring the gilded lining.

Man’s retail business is the core of EMG and AHL is its heart. It performed astonishingly strongly in 2008 with the monthly fund +25% net following a strong December (+5.5%). This leads us to upgrade our performance fee estimate for H2 09e from USD25m to USD225m (net of an estimated USD100m hit on principal investments in h2).

NH:
Clearly with the funds at highwater at end December there is scope for further upgrades in fiscal Q4 09. We have no sight of redemptions for December but with all man’s retail funds offering at least monthly liquidity we do not expect a surge of redemptions. Less than 15% of management fee revenues come from Man’s institutional business.

The fall out from the Madoff affair is difficult to quantify but is clearly going to put a spotlight on the fund of funds business; nevertheless we think some of the more extreme comment on the industry is bordering on hysterical. Many things about the industry need to be changed, including the FoF fee structures but the principle behind HF’s remain sound and the industry will survive and thrive in the future.

NH:
VALUATION AND RECOMMENDATION – On our numbers, Man is now trading on 6.6x Dec 09e net income with performance fees stripped out at 3x (5.7x including them). It also has a very robust balance sheet with net cash (plus loans to and investments in funds plus value of its associate investments) of GBP1.5bn and on an EV/EBITDA basis it looks compelling at just 3.3x Dec 09e.
NH:
and here’s Credit Suisse
NH:
who are also upgrading numbers
NH:
: Reducing net sales, leaving AUM unchanged: We are reducing our net sales estimates for Man group for the October to December 08 quarter and the Jan-March 09 quarter to reflect the continued rise in the rate of redemptions across the hedge
fund industry. We are now assuming net outflows of $1bn and $1.2bn for the two quarters respectively versus our previous assumption of zero net flows for the two quarters. We assume net inflows from AHL-heavy private client products of $0.9m
versus $3bn of institutional outflows. However our AUM forecast for the y/e March 09E is largely unchanged owing to the positive impact of the recent US$ weakness on the 30-40% of Man’s AUM which is non-US denominated.
NH:
Raising earnings forecasts: We are leaving our management fee forecasts for the y/e March 09E and the y/e March 2010E largely unchanged. There are clearly downside risks to net flows and negative operational leverage from declining
management fee revenues but we believe these should be negated by the relative strength of AHL in terms of sales and returns.

We are raising our performance fee PBT forecast for the half ending March 09E from $16m to $239m as AHL is now 6% above its previous performance fee high watermarks. We are raising our EPS forecast for the y/e March 09E by 19% to
59.1 cents. The growth in the size of AHL has also resulted in higher performance fees for coming years and a 7% upgrade to our EPS estimate for the y/e March 2010E.

NH:
Valuation is cheap: In our view the current issues facing Man group in terms of the weak returns of the hedge fund industry in 08 and the high degree of redemptions resulting are more than discounted in Man group’s current share price. We believe the
valuation of 5 x March 2010E EPS and current year estimated dividend yield of 12% are extremely attractive especially given the $1bn+ of excess capital on the company’s balance sheet.
NH:
some other movers
NH:
Johnson Matthey they are off 33p at £10.88
NH:
was the biggest faller in the FTSE 100 for a while
NH:
and that’s down to a Citigroup downgrade
NH:
the details of which are as follows
NH:
From 669p to 1169p since late November — The key features behind this rally
have been 1) JM’s better than expected FY guidance at its H1 results on 26th
November (FY EPS of 90-94p), 2) platinum prices bouncing off recent lows and 3)
continued sterling weakness.
NH:
Auto data continues to worsen — Toyota shocked the market on 22nd December by
decreasing its FY guidance to an operating loss of Y150bn (from its October Y600m
profit forecast). Chinese car sales fell 10% yoy in November (having risen 8% in
October) and Brazilian car sales also slowed dramatically in November (down 25%
yoy).

Valuation up with events — This downgrade to Hold is valuation premised. Our
1250p target price is unchanged. At 15x calendar 2009E PER the stock is back to
its long-term average valuation and we believe no longer appears to be a good value
on a relative basis given the current earnings challenges. We also raise the Risk
rating to Medium to reflect the short-term risks in supplying the auto industry

NH:
in the FTSE 250 solar company called PV Crystalox Solar
NH:
off 11p at 96p
NH:
and that follows a profit warning from Chinese rival
NH:
details here from RBS
NH:
LDK Solar, a US-listed peer of PV Crystalox, warned last night on weakening demand for solar cell products in light of worsening
credit and financial conditions. LDK lowered its revenue guidance for FY09 by 20%. The shares closed 14% down on the news.
NH:
PV Crystalox will probably follow today, but there are reasons why this shouldn.t be the case. Most notably, 95% of FY09 planned production is locked in at fixed prices. Secondly, over 50% of revenues are in Yen, which has been extremely strong against the euro (PV Crystalox.s reporting currency), appreciating 22% in the last year, which will help profits.

Thirdly, PV Crystalox regards itself as one of the lowest cost producers in the solar market, with low price polysilicon contracts and its own poly plant due to
come on line in 1Q09. The shares trade on 6.2x Dec09F PER, and yield 5.4% from a balance sheet which we forecast to have EUR76m of net cash at FY09F.

PM:
Thanks for that
12:10PM
PM:
And jsut before we go someone asked earlier about United Utilities
PM:
Goldman note out this morning
PM:
Return spreads could be squeezed
We believe the UK water sector faces two significant threats in 2009. The first is posed by Ofwat’s ongoing regulatory review, which will set the companies’ rate of return for the period 2010-2015 in November 2009. We consider that there is a risk that Ofwat will squeeze the spread between the
water companies’ allowed regulatory return and their cost of capital
.
Deflation threat to valuation and dividends
The second threat to UK water companies is that of a deflationary environment, which our economists forecast in 2009. As the value of water companies’ assets (RAV) is linked to RPI, a period of deflation could lead to lower growth in RAVs and revenues, which would be only partially offset
by index-linked debt and lower operating costs. Water companies’ dividend policies are also RPI-linked, so nominal dividend growth would be hampered by deflation.

Estimates and price targets updated
We have updated our earnings estimates and 12-month price targets for the four UK water companies. We have incorporated our economists’ new RPI forecasts into our earnings estimates and price targets, and also removed any allowance for possible M&A in the water subsector. Our price targets are now based solely on a SOTP approach.

United Utilities downgraded to Sell; reiterate Sell on Pennon
Based on our revised price targets, we see the most potential downside (11%) for United Utilities among the four UK water companies. We also forecast that United Utilities will have a dividend coverage ratio of less than 1x in 2010-2015E, and negative free cash flow for the same period. Our 12-month price target for Pennon implies 8% potential downside, and we reiterate our Sell rating on the shares. We maintain our Neutral ratings on Severn Trent and Northumbrian Water, as we believe the risks highlighted are already priced into the shares.

12:11PM
PM:
On that note…
PM:
We are off
PM:
Thanks for joining — adn thanks for all the comments
PM:
We will be back again here tomorrow at 11am
PM:
In the meantime, check out the main AV blog and also the Long Room
PM:
Seeya
NH:
bye
Print