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Markets live transcript 30 Oct 2008

Markets live chat transcript for the chat ending at 12:03 on 30 Oct 2008. Participants in this chat were: Paul Murphy (PM) Bryce Elder (BE)

PM:
Welcome to Markets Live
PM:
Good morning
PM:
This is FT Alphaville’s daily market chat
PM:
And this is a Hume-free day.
PM:
Bryce Elder is with me.
PM:
Rescued me.
PM:
Hi Bryce.
PM:
Bryce?
BE:
Hello.
BE:
Few tech difficulties, but in now.
PM:
PM:
I say Hume-free, but Neil was still email from 6.30 and on Skype from 7am.
BE:
He’s an addict.
PM:
But the sad truth is that Neil has had some sort of breakdown following the comic capitulation of Arsenal last night –
BE:
4-2 up against spurs, three minutes to go
PM:
I kinda feel sorry for him. He’d worked really hard to get tickets. In fact he had to disrupt lunch yesterday with a shrewd firm of brokers.
BE:
Hume heads for the tube to beat the rush.
BE:
Final score: 4:4
PM:
Had to take a call – and say: “I’m sorry about this, I need to nip out for five minutes…” Came back with two tickets.
PM:
And what did he get for his efforts – dashed hopes and a nervous breakdown.
PM:
Anyway – aas I say – Bryce is with me today.
PM:
PM:
Humeitus broken out below
PM:
What we got?
BE:
Well what we’ve got is a market that is positively ALL over the place.
BE:
Very difficult to identify a trend here.
BE:
FTSE 100 up 81 points at 4324
BE:
That’s about our best level this morning
BE:
Touched a low of 4225 earlier
PM:
This follows the Fed cut last night — 50bp
PM:
As cityboy points out the Dow future is pointing to a good rise on Wall St later — after the late volatility yesterday
BE:
Federal reserve declared money to be all but free last night – if you can find someone who has some they are willing to lend, that is.
PM:
I’ve got some scathing stuff from John Kemp on this.
BE:
What, the Sempra guy?
PM:
Yes, well he’s now at Reuters – not sure what he’s doing there – but he’s still pumping out his thoughts.
PM:
And here they are on the Fed move – well some of his thoughts:
PM:
If the only tool you have is a hammer, there is a temptation to view every problem as a nail.

While the Federal Reserve’s 50 basis point rate cut yesterday makes good theatre, it makes very little economic sense. But having exhausted its arsenal of other weapons, rate cuts are one of the few items the Fed has left to help restore confidence, even if the value is symbolic rather than practical.

The cut will make no difference to the availability of credit or anyone’s actual borrowing cost.

The only institutions which borrow at the very short end of the curve are banks and issuers of commercial paper.

But the Fed has already flooded the market with so much excess liquidity that interbank borrowing rates in the fed funds market have actually traded BELOW 1.00% every day since Oct 16. Cutting the target federal funds rate from 1.50% to 1.00% is a purely theoretical reduction — since the market has traded below this level for the last two weeks, and the Fed has take no action to make the target effective and binding by removing excess liquidity.

PM:
For commercial paper issuers, the ordinary market has largely shutdown; the only borrowing available is from the Fed’s Commercial Paper Funding Facility (CPFF).

Nor will the cut will not make much difference for corporate and household borrowers since their borrowing rates are tied to the longer parts of the yield curve plus a credit spread.

The Fed’s rate-cutting campaign has had some success bringing down yields on longer-term Treasury securities, but spreads have continued to widen, negating the benefits for ordinary borrowers.

The last time the Fed cut interest rates to 1.00%, in Jun 2003, yields on 5YR Treasury notes stood at 2.50%, yields on 10YR Treasury bonds stood at 3.50% and seasoned Baa-rated corporate borrowers were paying 6.35%.

This time, yields on 5YR Treasury paper are marginally higher (2.75%) as are yields on 10YR paper (3.90%) but yields for Baa-rated issuers are more than 300 basis points higher at 9.50%.

Shaving 50 points off rates at the short end of the curve will do nothing to ease the pressure on banks, corporates and household borrowers as long as investors stay concerned about a deteriorating economic outlook, falling home values, job losses, and slowing corporate profits, all of which threaten to undermine repayment ability and cut collateral values. Default risk and the associated credit spreads, not the interbank funding rate is now the problem.

PM:
Moreover, it is not clear how the Fed intends the cut in rates to help stimulate the economy.

The last time the Fed cut rates to 1.00% and held them there for more than a year, amid concerns about a sluggish economy and possible defaltion, it stimulated the debt-fuelled housing boom that is the root of the current crisis. Most commentators now agree interest rates were cut too low for too long in the early 2000s – and there are signs that a growing numbers of Fed policymakers agree. So why repeat the same mistake again?

More importantly, what is the Fed hoping will happen as a result of the cut? Do policymakers really want households and corporations to respond by taking on even more debt? Most are having enough difficulty paying the loans they already have.

In the event, a new borrowing boom is unlikely. The current problem is not the price of short-term money (which is cheap owing to the multiplication of Fed liquidity facilities) but the quantity of longer-term credit (which remains scarce).

Credit requires healthy banks and healthy borrowers.

BE:
Worth reading, that.
PM:
certainly is. Kemp is very good a slicing through the rap
PM:
PM:
Just to some comments below
PM:
Monkey — your organisational skills clearly outstrip mine
PM:
Can I come to your drinks on the 20th
PM:
Promise to contribute to the pot
PM:
Also — i can report that I am now in advanced negotiations to get a top top venue for the Belated formal webby drinks
PM:
Trouble is the place is booked up until January
PM:
But then it could be a good thing to liven up the new year — and Monkey’s drinks can be a decent warm up
BE:
To anonymous -
BE:
Punch is getting a push from Morgan Stanley this morning
BE:
ahead of prelims on Tuesday
BE:
They’re shop
BE:
Will just whack up the summary:
BE:
Punch Taverns
Refinancing Risk Diminished
Punch has taken a number of steps to refinance its
convertible, thus significantly reducing the risk here.
These include a dividend cut, securitized note
repurchases, convertible bond repurchase, and
extension of its loan facility.
As a result, we estimate Punch A will not longer trip its
cash trap test in 2009 or 2010, allowing an extra £140m
dividend to be upstreamed versus our prior forecasts. If
we add in Punch B’s upstreaming, the extended bank
facility, and assuming a 50% discount to NAV on the
pubs it aims to sell, we think it has £300m of liquidity to
pay off the remaining £224m convertible.
While we remain cautious on the leased pub companies
on a long-term view, as we still think an actual covenant
breach is a distinct possibility over the next few years,
we estimate Punch’s share price is already pricing in an
80% chance of breach, which looks too high to us at this
time.
We estimate Punch A will exceed cash traps in 2009
and 2010 post the A3(N) note repurchase
PM:
Cheers for that Bryce
PM:
PM:
now people are asking about the banks — which wew can come to
PM:
But also people asking about Xtstrat – which we can look at now
PM:
Do Xta via Glencore
BE:
Okay – the Glencore mystery
BE:
Tricky one this.
PM:
Two facts:
PM:
1. everyone we talk to who knows Glencore well, says they are a fantastic operation – very conservative – and all rumours of trouble are rubbish . Willy Strothotte said to be a top top guy.
PM:
2.. The market as a whole is screaming that there is something wrong with Glencore. Hence the CDS is trading at 1200 bps – distressed levels.
BE:
So what’s true?
PM:
We don’t know. But we do know this is building into a frenzy – and we do know that emails are being pinged around the City.
BE:
Against the market jungle beat, we are getting stuff like this – from Bloomberg yesterday:
BE:
Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) — Glencore International AG, the world’s biggest commodity-trading company, said it has had no problems in getting letters of credit, used to finance transactions.
Some suppliers of oil, coal and other commodities are losing sales as the credit crisis spreads beyond financial institutions, and banks refuse financing or increase the fees for buyers. “Glencore confirms that it is not encountering any difficulties in opening letters of credit,” Marc Ocskay, a spokesman for the Baar, Switzerland-based company, said in an e- mail today. He declined to comment further.
PM:
hmm
PM:
Now, we are always alive to accusation that printing emails like these feeds market malpractice.
PM:
We think that is rubbish. Rumours circulate – you cant stop ‘em. To suggest that other people shouldn’t be able to judge the rumour for themselves is silly.
PM:
But this is RAW.
RAW is market chatter – information that has not been formally tested through traditional journalistic channels (PRs etc). The story might be complete rubbish, but if we believe there is some substance to it we will say so. Either way, Reader Beware.
PM:
The sort of stuff we are hearing about Glencore basically says – however professional it is, the commodities slump will have an effect.
PM:
One guy said “Glencore is basic resource inventory cubed” – so they are talking of “shock” action – resulting in shotgun merger between Xstrata and Vale in Brazil to provide Glencore with a big infusion of cash.
PM:
that’s simply what the emails are saying
PM:
it is mayfair’s finest
BE:
Moved from nasty disruption of the financials to nasty disruption of commodity houses.
PM:
PM:
Well, obviously their book position is in Xstrata.
BE:
SHOCK: market source talks book!
PM:
Bang em up. How dare someone in the market their book.
PM:
How is Xstrata anyway?
BE:
XTA’s up 101p, 11.4%, at 989.5. That’s after a 20% or so rally yesterday as well.
PM:
Goodness
PM:
And now everyone knows why. Can make their own mind up how likely it is that Glencore will belatedly sell its Xstrata stake to Vale of Brazil.
BE:
After all if 44 quid was not enough a few months back, 10 quid must look very attractive now.
PM:
— yes, those are the terms from Brazil declined last time
PM:
PM:
Where off to now?
BE:
Hang on, we’re got some more resource stuff you know.
BE:
LONDON (Dow Jones)–London-listed Kazakh miner Kazakhmys PLC (KAZ.LN) this week raised slightly its stake in compatriot Eurasian Natural Resources Corp. PLC (ENRC.LN) as share prices fell near historic lows.
Kazakhmys Monday bought about 12.65 million ENRC shares, taking its total stake in the company to 334.82 million shares, or 26%, from 322.18 million shares, according to a regulatory filing released Thursday.
Shares traded between 288 pence and 330 pence Monday, at the time the among the lowest prices since ENRC debuted on the London Stock Exchange in December 2007.
Copper miner Kazakhmys has steadily built its stake in ENRC, also a Kazakhstan-focused natural resource company.
Last year it paid $806 million for a 14.58% holding. In June, Kazakhmys engineered a swap with Kazakhstan’s government to raise its stake to 22.24%, and in August it increased it to 25.02% after making a market purchase of 35.73 million shares for about GBP402.36 million.
In May, ENRC proposed a GBP7.05 billion takeover bid for Kazakhmys, which was rejected and then dropped.
PM:
Very interesting – I bet that stock has come from various oligarchs having to raise cash.
PM:
Seriously illiquid market
PM:
Until certain Russians had to meet margin calls…
BE:
ENRC’s up 13.5p at 308p.
PM:
And Kazakhmys has been flying also — up 44p at 313p
PM:
Move of 165 now
PM:
that must be on news that global recession has been averted or something
BE:
Indeed.
BE:
By the way, Parakeet is right to note Glencore CDS has tightened a bit in recent sessions
BE:
Believe results from Noble – which is basically seen as a mini Glencore – helped ease the stress a wee bit.
PM:
right — ta
PM:
PM:
Posted by nomad [report]

Monkey’s TARPy – to restore market liquidity!

PM:
Very good name for Monkey do
PM:
But just to note — with the Longroom — ML comments not working over there yet
PM:
We are looking at some substantial design changes to the new ML — but you may have to wait a bit for them.
PM:
Apols
PM:
Not as long as waiting for the Webby drinks tho
PM:
PM:
Banks
BE:
I’ve got the latest James Eden stuff from Exane BNP Paribas
PM:
What – stuff on Lloyds-TSB?
BE:
Yep.
PM:
Can you put the first par of that up as an exhibit.
BE:
Lloyds TSB: 51% outperformance in 15 days
We downgrade Lloyds TSB back to Neutral, barely two weeks since our upgrade in State Support, 15 October 2008. Despite touching a new 15-year low (150p) in absolute terms, Lloyds TSB has delivered 51% relative outperformance vs European banks. Continued outperformance may prove more challenging over the next month or so as technical trading should narrow the HBOS/Lloyds TSB arbitrage gap. However, the financial logic of the transaction remains compelling.
PM:
Okay – so if I look at this chart ive got up we can see that Lloyds TSb was 150p on October 15 and its now at 180p – gain of 20 per cent.
BE:
And the Footsie is up about 5 per cent during that period.
BE:
So it was a good call. But also remember that Eden’s 51 per cent outperformance stat was against other European banks.
PM:
Yeah, but a little more context is needed. If you’d bought the stock say two weeks earlier – you’d still be 40 per cent down.
PM:
I know Eden’s a top analyst and everything – and employs wonderful prose. But these are ludicrously volatile conditions in which to issue ultra short-term trading advice.
PM:
It’s no longer research, but punting advice.
BE:
What you worried that Eden et al are moving into your space?
PM:
Well, obviously he’d be better then me – but please.
BE:
So don’t you want Eden’s latest punting advice?
PM:
No – let’s not publish it.
PM:
Let’s have a chat about something sensible like Shell or how about BT.
PM:
Good solid companies.
BE:
Er. Murph – I think the readers would prefer us to share Eden’s thought.
PM:
No – its just punting nonsense. It might be a good call. It might not
PM:
The ball might end on red or it might end up on black.
BE:
Well, I’m going to put this up anyway.
BE:
Switch into HBOS: The arbitrage gap should continue to close
HBOS has rallied strongly over the last 36 hours, reflecting a number of positive developments – 3m LIBOR (5.91% yesterday) is (gradually) coming down, the pricing of HBOS’ EUR3bn and GBP600m bonds backed by HM Treasury under the Darling Plan, confirmation that documentation re HBOS transaction will be sent out next week, and increased confidence that the deal will close in January 2009 as expected, with each HBOS share being exchanged for 0.605 Lloyds TSB shares. However, at last night’s close, HBOS shares stood at 0.49x Lloyds TSB shares, offering 68% upside to our 148p target price for HBOS. Lloyds TSB now offers only 36% upside – less than our sector average.

Defensive qualities of Lloyds TSB/HBOS combination are underestimated
We estimate that the potential cost synergies are likely to be GBP1.8bn p.a. by 2011e and calculate a negative goodwill of c.GBP20bn on the discounted acquisition of HBOS at a fraction of its intrinsic worth. We expect strong growth in pre-provision profits over the 2008e-2011e period and despite the prospect of rising bad debts as the recession bites, underlying PBT in 2010e should be at a similar level to 2008e, although earnings will fall in 2009e. Following the capital injection (Darling Plan), we project equity Tier 1 ratios of about 9.5% (end 2008) for both HBOS and Lloyds TSB.

PM:
PM:
You’re just trying to get in with the readers.
PM:
And look – what Eden is saying there is that the bid arb community are back in business – and im not quite sure about that.
PM:
But what is the discount?
BE:
Lloyds paper worth 108.7 I think. HBOS trading at 94.
BE:
13% ish — so the discount has already narrowed substantially.
PM:
Note Eden expresses the HBOS price as a fractional multiple of Lloyds – 0.49x in the note.
PM:
So it’s moved to 0.52x this morning.
PM:
Funny trick that – gives the casual reader the impression that HBOS should somehow be worth 1x Lloyds. But they’re not of course – they are worth 0.6005 times Lloyds, minus dilution, merger execution etc.
BE:
You really don’t like this deal.
PM:
Actually – no I don’t want to give that impression, Eden’s a star – and Lloyds BOS the superbank will no doubt eventually become a very profitable bank indeed, given its competition whitewash.
PM:
Do we have anything on RBS?
PM:
Correction do you have anything Bryce — on RBS?
BE:
Well, there was a good comment from Caz in yesterday’s transcript.
BE:
And there’s a note through from Dresdner today.
BE:
They’re buyers.
BE:
We set out what we think should be the new CEO’s agenda. He must convince the
market that RBS is operationally independent from the government and then
move to restructure GBM, which does not generate profit commensurate with its
massive balance sheet usage. Insurance, with high returns and good liquidity,
should be retained. We also have continuing faith in the synergy targets. Buy.
BE:
Worst-case scenarios factored in for government-related issues, so only upside: We
think that the general assumption at the moment is that almost no shareholders will take
their allocation of new shares and that the government will end up with more than 50% of
RBS. That is possible, but there is only upside from that position. Similarly, we think that
investors are pessimistic on the government prefs and the potential for ordinary dividends.
Perhaps that pessimism is correct, but again we think there is only upside from here.
► Balance sheet issues centre on the biggest division, Global Banking & Markets:
Our proprietary divisional matrix looks at each division on a number of measures (capital,
liquidity, profitability etc) and GBM comes out looking worst. If it were a small division
causing the problems then selling it could solve RBS’s problems. But we think that GBM
is too core and too large to sell, making restructuring the most likely outcome. We think
that RBS Insurance should be retained given its low capital intensity and good liquidity.
► ABN AMRO synergy targets likely to be met, even in Sir Fred Goodwin’s absence:
Sir Fred has become almost synonymous with RBS’s ability to drive out synergies. But
given how often and how effectively the group has wrung synergies out of so many deals
in different divisions and countries, RBS clearly has a well-drilled integration process that
should survive a change of CEO. These synergies are vital for the income statement,
offsetting about half of the organic shrinkage that we forecast for 2007-10E.
► Our forecasts include GBM 2010E profits just 37% of 2007 and we still see value:
Excluding FX moves, synergies and one-offs, we forecast 2010E group profits 42% lower
than in 2007, with most of this driven by a difficult outlook for the capital markets operation,
which is trying to de-gear and integrate ABN AMRO in a hostile environment. We have also
pushed up loan loss charges across the group to a peak of 122bp for 2010E. Overall, our
2009E forecasts have come down by 6% and those for 2010E by 24%.
► Adjusted for equity issuance, RBS trades at just 0.45x 2009E tangible book value: A
share today gives a holder a post-issuance share plus a right to buy another 1.38 postissuance
shares at 65.5p. At current prices, that option is worth 16.7p. Shareholders can write
1.38 calls for an effective 47p price for post-issuance shares, which is 0.45x 2009E tangible
book value. The outlook is tough and a majority government stake possible, but 0.45x seems
too harsh. Our new price target of 95p (was 86p) implies 49% upside potential. Buy.
BE:
That’s from James Invine, CFA.
PM:
Cheers for that — v useful
PM:
PM:
Quick bit on Deutsche
PM:
Should say there are all sorts of rumours round london about a senior trader taking a sudden sabbatical at Deutsche — following a certain trade
PM:
The bank seem to be swatting all the rumours — so they must be baseless
BE:
They had their Q3s this morning
PM:
got a quick snap on those from Citigroup
PM:
No Capital Raise (Yet) — The company plans to deleverage organically by
shrinking assets, and hinted at a potential dividend cut for 2008 with the
comment “We will balance our dividend policy with our commitment to
conserving capital strength”. However, assets are up 4% QoQ here, and the
tangible equity/asset ratio is unchanged at just 1.16%, despite the benefit of
equity raising for the Postbank stake (where the capital has come in but the
purchase price does not go out until 1Q09).
 Small Profit After All, Helped By Accounting — DB has managed to stay in
profit in 3Q, +€435m, compared to a consensus €250m loss. However, the
numbers are helped by tax and minority interest credits, before which PBT was
just €93m, and helped by avoiding €845m of markdowns via switching assets
from mark-to-market to hold-to-maturity (under new IFRS rule).
 Further Markdowns — The figures include €1.2bn markdowns (€467m
leveraged loans, €202m RMBS, €163m commercial real estate, €255m
monolines, €85m other), €873m credit prop losses, €386m equity prop losses,
€146m gains on own debt, and €55m markdowns in asset management.
PM:
Operating Divisions Below Expectations — The operating divisions are worse
than consensus, in aggregate a €364m loss vs consensus €135m loss.
Transaction banking is stable, but investment banking, retail banking and asset
management are all down heavily. All the profit beat has come on the corporate
centre items (€456m profit vs consensus €95m loss).
 Heavier Loan Loss Charges — Loan loss provisions of €236m are 31% higher
than consensus, and more than double 3Q07. The underlying increase was
driven by deteriorating credit conditions in Spain, and growth in consumer
finance in Poland. There is a €72m increase due to the accounting
reclassification of previously mark-to-market assets shifting into the loan book.
 Cautious Outlook — “The outlook for the banking sector has deteriorated
considerably … Government measures and more extensive regulation are likely
to reinforce lower profitability … The process of deleveraging has just started
and is expected to likewise contribute to a significant decrease in profitability
… Conditions in the equity and credit markets remain extremely difficult.”
PM:
Love they way Deutsch e has avoided 845m euro of mark downs by switching assets to hold-to-maturity
PM:
Nothing like sweeping things under the carpet
PM:
PM:
Insurers
PM:
Why are insurers lagging today?
BE:
Well, Standard Life’s UK sales were disappointing. That meant group nine-month sales were a bit light against the consensus.
BE:
Retail pensions the weak spot, apparently.
BE:
Cautious outlook statement as well, although that wasn’t much of a surprise given what the rest of the sector’s said.
BE:
Retail business likely to be affected by investors preference for lower risk asset classes. Slower growth in institutional mandates. Yada yada.
PM:
Any analyst comment?
BE:
Well, JP Morgan put a note out talking about the bathtub effect, which I’m sure will make sense to a couple of the readers.
BE:
While the new business numbers for Standard Life were slightly
better than a highly depressed Q3 consensus at £2,325m verses
£2,295m (APE for 9 months) we believe the net flows that Standard Life
would like us to focus on illustrate the key issue.
• We believe this can be explained as the “Bath Tub Effect”, with the
taps flowing in the bath (new business single premiums) falling in
current market conditions 15.4% from Q3 2007 level. However, the
outflows “plug hole”, were relatively unchanged, despite lower assets
under management following equity falls; Q3 outflows were £3.4bn
verses £3.5bn in Q2 (£3.5bn Q3 2007). We think these lower inflows and
relatively unchanged outflows represent a problem for a business which,
in our opinion, needs to grow assets under management (the water level)
to compensate for the run off of the with profit fund.
• We expect downward revisions of IFRS earnings estimates as we
wrote on Monday, there are significant exceptional positives in historic
data and the relatively high management expenses of the group of £800m
compared to £129bn assets under management is more than the charge
on new SIPP contracts. So we expect aggressive cost cutting will be
required to maintain profits especially following equity market falls and
flat redemptions.
PM:
BE:
• Management claim outflows are inline with short term elevated lapse
assumptions We expect a further lapse charge may be required in future
if outflows remain at these levels.
• Early retirements We believe it is too early to see significant impact of
recessionary early retirements in Standard Life’s SIPP net flows as we
indicated in our Monday note, so we believe net flows could deteriorate
from the current level.
• Capital The FGD buffer of the group remains very strong at £3.4bn and
a 40% fall would reduce this to £1.9bn. This is one of the strongest
buffers in the UK. However, earnings power to service the debt is felt to
be a more important driver of ratings and capital for Standard Life.
BE:
Also worth noting RBS has downgraded RSA to “sell” today.
BE:
Talks about investors ignoring its exposure to Scandi mortgage bonds, Baltic and Latin American emerging markets.
BE:
That’s ahead of its Q3 trading update on November 6.
PM:
Do you have the note? Several of the readers seem a bit obsessed with RSA.
BE:
A few stale bulls in there, I’d suggest. It’s one of those red hot bid stories that hasn’t paid out.
BE:
Anyway, here’s the summary.
BE:
Baltics and Latin American exposure
Economies, currencies and markets in these regions have taken a serious beating, and some
banking systems and economies are not strong enough to deal with the credit crunch or its
recessionary aftermath. In 2007, RSA generated £154m of premium income (3% of total) from the
Baltics. Another £350m (6%) of premiums were written in Latin America. The credit spreads on
some of the sovereign and corporate debts have widened in anticipation of a material rise in
defaults. This is likely to reduce investment returns and slow down the rate of growth in premiums.
Investment return may be constrained
The group’s investment portfolio has a relatively short average duration of around three years and
should be impacted less by the widening of credit spreads. However, we do expect some defaults
and a rise in unrealised losses on the bonds and lower market values of equities, to the extent not
hedged, and real estate assets. This will negatively impact investment returns. Claims experience
may deteriorate in the recession, due to fraud and arson.
BE:
Forecast changes
We have reduced our EPS forecasts for 2008-1010 by 15%, 23% and 25% due to our expectation
of lower investment returns, including larger losses than previously expected on the group’s
financial assets. The shares trade on a multiple of near 10x our 2009 EPS forecast, which seems
rather full given the uncertainties of the financial markets over the next year and the lower PE
ratios of Lloyds insurers.
Valuation and target price
We estimate RSA can deliver a return on capital of 13.75% pa on average over the course of the
insurance pricing cycle. Using the Gordon Growth Model to calculate a fair value price-to-tangible-
NAV ratio of 1.34x and applying this to our prospective NAV for RSA as at the end of 2009F (96p
less 12p of goodwill) we arrive at 112p, which is our new 12-month target price for the stock. We
are downgrading our recommendation from Hold to Sell.
PM:
Thanks for that.
PM:
bickie
Reminder to readers – if you arrived late and want to stop the dialogue ‘jumping’ as you catch up, hit the ‘pause auto-scrolling’ tab at the bottom right hand corner
PM:
bit late today
BE:
Finally – on Admiral – currently down 16%.
BE:
That’s just a correction after a duff auction unwind last night.
BE:
Shares are barely changed on the two-day view.
PM:
Why do we keep getting these volatile auction sessions now?
BE:
Odd isn’t it? There are lots of theories, but none that really need the air of publicity right now.
BE:
Anyway, here’s the Admiral chart for all conspiracy theorists out there.

http://tinyurl.com/admiralchart

BE:
Tuna – I think it’s fair to suggest that the short selling ban is certainly playing a part in the volatility.
PM:
PM:
No libor yet?
BE:
Nope.
PM:
The libor shocks seem to be something of the past now in any case
BE:
While we wait, did you catch that Channel 4 programme on the bailout last night?
PM:
No. Was it good?
BE:
Well, it was entertaining at least.
BE:
Presented by Hugh Hendry. Eclectica Asset Management.
PM:
who?
BE:
He’s a Bloomberg regular, and a bit of an expert at the opinionated soundbite.
PM:
ah
BE:
“I’m a Joan of Arc-type manager; I hear voices in my head,” he says when I ask how he picks his investments.
BE:
Born for TV. Romped through the show with three shirt buttons to the wind. Collar like Harry Hill. Big frame Gucci glasses that Jay-Z would consider a bit much.
BE:
Anyway, thought he did a decent job, once we got past the hype about how contrarian he is and how well his fund’s doing.
PM:
BE:
There was a rather stagy office scene at the start with him shapping his forehead and being amazed. Saying things on the phone like: “it’s the end of the world and my hedge fund is up 21% this month.”
BE:
Few too many moody shots of the Barbican underpass as well, and some of the script was a bit overbaked.
PM:
BE:
“MBS, CDO, RMBS … a lexicon of acronyms whose epitaph will be SOS.” – that kind of thing.
PM:
Oh — i wish id seen this
BE:
But it was a relief to watch a programme on the unwind without having to look at that ex Dresdner freesheet guy with the beard.
BE:
Some decent names interviewed as well. Lyle Gramley. Richard Silla. Harvey Pitt.
BE:
A brief but useful cameo from Krugman.
BE:
Buiter. Roubini, who if I heard right was advocating public hangings as a deterrent.
BE:
A very irritable George Mathewson, who was clearly not going to be drawn into criticising The Shred so only got about 10 seconds..
PM:
very good
BE:
Then there was an ace mongoose versus snake standoff between him and Andy Brough, who was dragged out to represent the buy side.
BE:
Got grilled about the City being too timid to vote against deals like ABN. Brough seemed rather amused when Hendry used the phrase: “Capitalism depends on holding a knife at your back.”
PM:
Brilliant review
PM:
So are we doing TV reviews as well as restaurant reviews now?
BE:
Well, if AA Gill can do it …
BE:
He did make some reasonable conclusions though.
BE:
“Never allow banks to lend more than they have on deposit. Separate investment banking from retail banking.”
BE:
Then it all got hilariously Churchillian.
BE:
“The age of austerity is coming. Mass unemployment is looming. Our love affair with spending has to end. We all got too excited with cheap credit and need to pull in our horns.
BE:
“But we’re better than this, we’ll get through it, and our strength of character will prevail.
BE:
“I’ll see you on the other side.”
BE:
That was his payoff line.
BE:
… which I guess suggests his next presenting gig will be Most Haunted Live.
PM:
PM:
Excellent
PM:
PM:
How’s WPP doing
BE:
Up 31p at 363p
PM:
Goodness me — taht’s turned around
PM:
Pretty stark statement from WPP earlier – saying 2009 going to be v v tough – and that it will prove difficult to protect margins.
BE:
And the results were light as well.
BE:
Companies rallying on bad news.
PM:
Any analyst cooment
BE:
A few bits. This is from analysts at Singer Ex-Friedlander earlier.
BE:
WPP (Not Rated) – Q3 update implies margin target effectively dead, revenue outlook poor
Q3: Organic growth was 3.0% (over 4% H1) and “was similar in all 3 months, although below original expectations”. Company has indicated that lift from Olympics not as strong as expected. Reported growth was 16.2% with over 10% benefit coming from currency and the balance from acquisitions. Margin flat YOY for first 9months and organic on same basis just under 4%. APAC and EMEA were strong during the quarter and Western Europe was surprisingly robust (growth improved on H1) while UK slowed and North America was weakest.
Outlook: While updates this week from peers prepared the market for the bad news, the cautious tone of WPP’s statement will highlight the lack of visibility and scale of pressure likely to be felt by agency segment. Company flags that “everything will be done to try to achieve our improved operating margin target of 15.5%, although attaining this will not be easy”. Consensus is currently 14.8% and may fall further. For 2009 company flags that it is currently preparing budgets, indicates expects significant variances in regional growth rate, but avoids specific guidance. One bright spot is net new business wins were strong at $1.73bn raising 9m total to $4.25bn. While it may not all get spent WPP is clearly performing well on this key metric.
View: Stock trades on 6.0x consensus FY08 and FY09 forecasts. Sir Marin Sorrel suggests in the announcement that “it is not likely that our budget will reflect the Armageddon currently predicted by the fall in share prices” . While current US$ strength will help offset revenue pressure to a degree, uncertainty and leverage will continue to weigh on stock near term until the severity of the macro downturn can be gauged. The health of key clients, such as Ford, will also be an important factor as well as the integration of TNS. There will be a time to buy this global bellwether. It is not yet.
PM:
Hmm — other people seem to have suddenly decided it is the time to buy.
PM:
Singer Ex-friedlander – we should applaud news that this firm has got back on its feet.
BE:
And so quickly.
BE:
Just about the only thing we’ve seen of clarity coming out of the Kaupthing collapse.
PM:
For those who missed it, here’s Brook masters’ take in the FT:
PM:
The UK capital markets arm of collapsed Icelandic bank Kaupthing has risen from the ashes thanks to a management-led buy-out.
The renamed Singer Capital Markets will be an independent corporate broker focusing on the UK small- and mid-cap market. It has about 70 employees and makes markets in 500 stocks and issues research in about a dozen sectors.

The management, led by Tim Cockcroft, chief executive, already owned one-third of the business. It has now bought the remaining 67 per cent from the administrators in charge of winding up Kaupthing’s UK banking business for an undisclosed sum.
While the capital markets business was always an independent legal entity and did not go into administration with the rest of Kaupthing last month, the troubles of its controlling shareholder cast a pall over its ability to do business.

PM:
So it’s not actually called Singer & Ex-Friedlander?
BE:
Er, no, Singer Capital Markets.
BE:
BE:
Back to Libor for a moment
PM:
Not putting all the figs up unless people really want, but jsut look at this:
PM:
ON $ 0.73 versus 1.14
BE:
Well obvously that’s after the rate cut …
PM:
But it’s at such a discount to official rates — under pins waht John Kemp was saying earlier
PM:
PM:
Pakora — very good — singed cap markets
PM:
Anything before we finish
BE:
Wouldn’t be ML without a mention of the housebuilders.
PM:
Ah yes I see the Mid 250 gainers features a few housebuilders.
Barratt Developments (BDEV:LSE): Last: 62.50, up 8.25 (+15.21%), High: 64.50, Low: 57.00, Volume: 2.24m
Ashmore Group (ASHM:LSE): Last: 175.75, up 37.75 (+27.36%), High: 176.00, Low: 141.75, Volume: 356.47k
PM:
That’s in celebration of the latest Nationwide house price data – I assume
PM:
Year on year fall of 14.6 per cent – worse number on record. Or at least since the 70s when their data started.
BE:
Well there are a few people who think we might have seen the worst in this sector –
BE:
There’s some stuff from Cazenove on this – pointing out that, at some point, being well beaten up already becomes a virtue.
PM:
Oh do share.
BE:
The debate on interest rates in the UK has moved on at breakneck speed. Only six months ago, received wisdom was that UK base rate would have to rise to 7% in an attempt to choke off inflation. That same received wisdom is suggesting rates will now fall to possibly 2% to limit recession.
Over the last six months as that shift in interest rate expectations has occurred, estimates have been reduced, land writedowns have begun to catch up with reality and house price deflation has accelerated.
We believe prospects for the industry could be starting to improve or, at least will improve relative to the newsflow elsewhere, as being very early cycle and very battered already becomes a virtue.
BE:
Here are their headline recommendations:
BE:
Barratt Developments – [BDEV.L, BDEV LN], 50p, from In-Line to UNDERPERFORM
Bellway – [BWY.L, BWY LN], 422p, from In-Line to OUTPERFORM
Bovis – [BVS.L, BVS LN], 282p, from In-Line to UNDERPERFORM
Persimmon – [PSN.L, PSN LN], 215p from In-Line to OUTPERFORM
PM:
Okay –so you’ve got to pick the right sector member.
BE:
Indeed
BE:
Here’s some more from Caz
BE:
We would highlight the relative virtues of:
Mortgage approvals (the industry’s lead indicator) appear to have bottomed out.
Housing completions (the industry’s output) will have halved in 2008 and stand at a third of Government targets. Output could therefore double into any rebound without addressing the perceived supply shortage.
Houses have become affordable and we believe could be c. 30% cheaper by the middle of 2009.
The availability and cost of mortgage debt would appear to be set to improve following the taxpayer bailout of mortgage providers and the probable sharp reduction in mortgage costs.
We are therefore suggesting it is time to look to invest in the sector. We would avoid financial gearing, look for those companies most capable of continuing to pay dividends and where the operational and financial structure remains in place to benefit from the inevitable upturn in volumes. We believe Bellway and Persimmon would appear to fit these criteria best. We are therefore maintaining our NEUTRAL weighting for the sector with a bias to Overweight in the short-term but resetting our stock recommendations.
PM:
thanks for that
PM:
PM:
Right — we are about done
PM:
Got NO lunch today
PM:
PM:
Jsut a load of work to catch up on
BE:
Likewise. Catfood sandwich from the vending machine beckons.
PM:
Yum
PM:
here’s a post at Dealbreaker to have a look at — caption competition with pic of bernanke reading the markets pages of the FT
PM:
And this for CDS followers:
PM:
NEW YORK, Oct 30, 2008 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX News Network/ — IntercontinentalExchange, Inc. (NYSE: ICE), a leading operator of global regulated futures exchanges and over-the-counter (OTC) markets, and The Clearing Corporation (TCC), today announced new agreements intended to advance their previously announced joint global clearing solution for Credit Default Swaps (CDS). Together with nine of the major global investment banks who are dealers in the CDS markets, ICE and TCC have entered into memorandums of understanding (MOUs) to develop a joint global clearing solution and to effect the acquisition of TCC by ICE.
Under the terms of the new agreements, ICE will acquire TCC and will form ICE US Trust (ICE Trust), a New York limited purpose trust company and subsidiary of ICE, with the support of Bank of America, Citi, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley and UBS. As previously announced, ICE and TCC continue to work closely with regulators, other market participants and industry groups to develop a comprehensive central counterparty clearing solution for the CDS market. This customized solution is currently undergoing final testing in preparation for launch.
PM:
And we are off
PM:
Thank you to Bryce for joining me today
PM:
And thank you to everyone for your comments and gags
PM:
And party invites
PM:
We will be back tomorrow at 11am
PM:
seeya
BE:
Cheers. See you on the other side.
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