Markets live chat transcript for the chat ending at 11:58 on 18 Jun 2007. Participants in this chat were: Paul Murphy (PM) Neil Hume (NH)
PM: Welcome to Markets Live, FT Alphaville’s daily markets chat.
PM: Neil Hume is with me, raring to go
PM: Right – caution to the wind this morning.
PM: Big things going on this morning, like a bid for ICI …
NH: before we do that, couple of serious rumours doing the rounds this morning that we should comment on
PM: Wot even before we discuss Pearson???
NH: even before we discuss Pearson
PM: Ok — give us the detail — the RAW detail
NH: United Utilities
NH: stock just started to motor
NH: now up 9p at 778p
PM: Ah, jsut watching it
NH: talk of 900p bid in the offing
PM: Wow
PM: This is RAW market info, yeah?
NH: and the other bit of RAW market info I wanted to draw peoples attention to is Invensys
PM: Goodness
NH: stock up 13p at 390p
NH: talk that Invensys is plotting a bid
NH: personally I think it has more to do with a note from Cazenove, which we will come back to later
PM: And quickly on United Utilities — ??? any idea on the bidder??
NH: no, not yet. infrastructure funds is the vague rumour
PM: Ok, thanks for thtat
PM: But as i mentioned a moment ago we have a seriously important matter to discuss
PM: Pearson, blue chip owner of this newspaper and this website, is exploring ways in which it might counter Rupert Murdoch’s $5bn for Dow Jones.
PM: That’s the owner of the Wall St Journal – prime competitor of the FT.
PM: So we’ve got a piece of our mind to offer the Great Dame Marjorie Scardino, haven’t we Neil?
NH: Hey, Hey Hey – STOP RIGHT THERE MURPH!
PM: Wot? You were making your views very clear just a moment ago. And although we’d have to clear up some of the language I think we should share those views with the readers.
NH: Pack it in Murphy. I was reading from a brokers note – nothing less, nothing more.
PM: I cant believe you are being so spineless, especially at an important moment like this.
NH: At this precise moment I have a large mortgage and three young children.
PM: I don’t know…
PM: Let’s stick to the facts then.
PM: Give us the gory detail on Pearson’s tanking share price. 10% drop?
NH: No, it hasn’t tanked
NH: price off just 8.5p at 864.5p
PM: Ah, supported by bear-closing, I guess.
NH: Er, no. The market is simply taking this news in its stride.
PM: Ah, come on, there must be some juicy stuff about Marj being painted into a pink corner. Stuff about dead bodies and expensive funerals???
NH: No.
NH: Here’s what Lorna Tilbian from Numis has to say.
PM: Oh, right I like Lorna’s stuff
NH: There has been press speculation that Pearson is attempting to form a joint venture to bid for Dow Jones. We view the likelihood of this succeeding as slim, reflecting the complexity of putting together a three-way combination (say Pearson, GE and the Bancrofts), that such a move would be at odds with Pearson’s recent strategy and NewsCorp has offered a 65% premium, which makes it difficult for other bidders to make an attractive financial return.
NH: Joint venture: Weekend press reports note that Pearson has approached several parties (GE, Hearst) about forming a joint venture to bid for Dow Jones, owner of the Wall Street Journal. A possible bid structure could be 40-45% each for, say, Pearson and GE with the Bancroft family, currently the major shareholder in Dow Jones, retaining a 10-20% stake.
NH: Deal rationale: We see attractions of combining the portfolios of, say, Pearson (Financial Times, Economist, FT business, IDC) with GE (owner of the CNBC business news channel). However, in our view the motivation is largely defensive, with Pearson/GE likely to be concerned with the competitive pressures they would face from a NewsCorp-owned WSJ and the potential to combine this with the Fox Business News channel.
NH: Will it happen?: The difficulty in putting together a three-way combination should not be underestimated. Further, Pearson’s recent strategy has been to invest in online financial information and education rather than printed financial news. Finally, with NewsCorp offering a 65% premium it will be difficult for any other bidders to secure an attractive financial return. Accordingly, although we believe it is prudent for Pearson to consider a rival bid, we view the likelihood of a Pearson/GE/Bancroft consortium succeeding as relatively slim.
NH: Valuation: Our trading valuation for Pearson is 982p and we view the stock as attractive on fundamentals, given robust trading across the group\’s three divisions and the attractions of the group\’s solid yield. We also highlight that recent Private Equity and trade buyer interest in comparable education, financial information and financial news assets would value Pearson at c.1200p on a takeout basis.
PM: Hmm, that’s upbeat on the valuation front – trading value of 982p and PE read-thru value of #12.
NH: Ok, well this will hose you down a bit. It’s from Cazenove.
NH: Pearson - [PSON.L PSON LN] 873p stock OUTPERFORM, sector In Line. Weekend press reports suggest that (a) Pearson is exploring with GE and others the possibility of a counter-bid for Dow Jones (source: Financial Times); (b) that the FT newspaper is to increase its cover price by 30p/day from today (source; Guardian , seemingly confirmed at newsagents this morning ); (c) that Pearson is considering a possible sale of Les Echos in France (source: Financial Times). While we would expect Pearson to be considering its options currently with regard to Dow Jones - given it owns the principal competitor to Pearson’s FT – we do view the decision management will come to as an important litmus test of future strategic intention. A decision to ‘leave alone’ would confirm the group’s increasing focus on its leading position in the education sector, and would be taken positively by the market in our view
NH: In contrast, a decision to invest in Dow Jones would confirm the group is set to remain more diversified including a financial publishing leg, and would require much greater justification to shareholders in our view. Even a partial investment in a consortium bid, while it may have defensive merits in preserving the current competitive environment for the FT, could be viewed as signalling no early exit for Pearson from the financial sector. Assuming the FT cover price rise applies to the UK only (140k circulation out of total circulation of 460k) this could add a useful £8m pa (1.6%) to Pearson\’s bottom line. However, we view the decision on Dow Jones as far more critical longer term. Our positive stance on the stock remains predicated on the potential for the group to grow EPS longer term by focusing on its global leadership in education.
PM: Hmm. That reads suspiciously like they want Pearson to sell the FT.
PM: In fact that piece of research is pants.
NH: just had a bit of research in from UBS. this looks quite good to me
PM: Ok — let see. Im assuming I dont need to hide
NH: Pearson seeks partners for a Dow Jones bid
The WSJ states that Pearson is looking for partners to bid for Dow Jones, although
the chances of a bid are slim. Concerns over a potential deal may weigh on the
Pearson share price, but we believe the benefits from a deal could be greater than
the market expects and that this potentially represents an offensive move by
Pearson.
NH: Deal makes strategic sense
Combining of the WSJ/FT would create a global leader in financial press and the
combining IDC/DJ Newswires would create a significant player in the mid-tier of
the financial information market. We estimate synergies from a deal could be
around $200m pa leading to a 12% enhancement to 2010 EPS and delivering a 7-
8% ROIC.
NH: Education the main value driver for Pearson
Should News Corp gain control of Dow Jones, there may be concerns about
increased competition for the FT, but it is <3% of Pearson EBITA. Education
remains the main value driver for Pearson and momentum in the Education
business should improve as it takes further share as market growth accelerates.
NH: Valuation: Free option on Education upside.
Recent M&A benchmarks in Education have not been factored into the shares and
this remains a \’free option\’. On a best case scenario, we see potential upside of up
to 1230p. Pearson trades on 15x 2008E PE after adjusting for the cash tax rate. Our
PT is SOTP/DCF based.
PM: So that would mean redundos on the US side rather than over here — if they want to meet such a punchy synergy target
NH: ummm. that’s enough of that
PM: Anyway, if we did merge with the Journal, what do you reckon would happen
NH: Don’t go there Paul
PM: Do you think we should be opening our own merger talks with Market Beat and Deal Journal
PM: (Those are two online WSJ services, bit like FT Alpahville. Rather good, must say)
NH: That’s generous. But just don’t go there
PM: So I shouldn’t mention anything about the Takoever Panel either?
NH: No!
PM: Or about the lack of a Pearson statetment.
NH: NO. NO. NO. NO. NO AND NO.
PM: Ok get the msg. Let’s move on
PM: 
PM: It’s 11.12 and we are still in a job
PM: Tell me about ICI
NH: aside from Pearson , obviously the big story of the day
NH: shares currently up 91.5p at 641p
PM: That’s a move of 16.7%
PM: of course this follows news that the board of the chemicals company had rebuffed a 600p a share offer from its cash rich Dutch rival Akzo Nobel
PM: So what is the price telling us?
NH: that the 600p offer from Akzo was just a sighter
NH: most analysts think Akzo could afford to pay at least 650p a share
PM: On what basis??
NH: Well, most analysts ascribe a fundamental value for ICI of around 500p to 525p
NH: they reckon the synergies in pthe reckon the synergies in putting the two companies together are worth around 150p
NH: hence the shares are trading at a small discount to that level
PM: So no one is betting on a counter bid?
NH: not yet, but I would not rule it out
PM: Any names in the frame?
NH: BASF, Dow Chemical, Reliance Industries
PM: Ah, sign of the times — Indian counter-bidder thrown into the mix
PM: And what about the pension fund deficit?
PM: A lot has been made of that in the press
PM: Could it be a deal breaker?
NH: personally I think it has been overplayed
PM: Why’s that?
NH: well, we are not talking about a PE company buying ICI
NH: what we are looking at here are big, well financed companies having a crack at it
NH: and I can’t see the trustees having a problem with Akzo’s financial covenants for example
PM: Fair point.
NH: I think the other point worth making is the attitude of ICI to the bid approach
PM: Why’s that?
NH: well, this company is not exactly a sitting duck
NH: the company’s fortunes have been revived John McAdam
NH: it has wiped out debtt – in fact it will have £400m of new cash by the end of this year -
NH: So there is absolutely no reason why ICI should just roll over and die
NH: Moreover, Akzo desperately want ICI.
NH: they have $15bn of cash burning a hole in their pocket
NH: and need to bulk up their paints side
PM: So you are saying this is a sellers market??
NH: Yep
NH: ICI should squeeze the Dutch for all they are worth and try and drum up an auction
PM: Ok, fair enough
PM: Do we have any analyst comment?
NH: got some good stuff from Cazenove
NH: looks at whether any of the rumoured counter bidders will actually strike
PM: Sounds interesting
PM: What are the conclusions?
NH: well, Dow and BASF could certainly do it. they have the financial firepower
NH: they could achieve large synergies through supplying ICI with cheaper raw material
NH: But
PM: I knew there was going to be a but
NH: BASF may not have the appetite for another large acquisition
NH: it made three in 2006
NH: hang let, it might be easier if I just pasted some of this note
NH: Akzo’s approach to ICI will begin a long process with potentially substantial upside for ICI shareholders. We believe that winning ICI is crucially important for Akzo as a way of successfully utilising the soon to be received €11bn proceeds from the sale of its pharma business. There remains a shortage of desirable assets with brand leadership and ICI has that. Akzo’s target of EVA positive after 3-5 years allows substantial scope to pay a full price in order to extract benefits, synergies and growth over a long time horizon (eg as it did successfully with Courtaulds)
NH: ICI remains in robust shape with a well regarded management team, net cash approaching £400m by year end, a focused structure with two successful divisions, brand leadership and an attractive geographic base (eg Asia). We anticipate Q2 (August 2) will continue to show good progress as cost cutting and strong trading are visible. In addition, we believe that a possible share buyback and further accelerated cost cutting could serve to accelerate margin recovery, and boost earnings faster than expected, if the Company chooses to fight an unwanted offer.
NH: With the cycle nearing the peak, we believe that other chemical companies will look at ICI as a way of broadening product geographic exposure. This always happens as managements flush with cash look outside the box
NH: Dow Chemical and Du Pont would also be able to extract substantial backward integration benefits by supplying cheap raw material (eg DuPont supply Titanium Dioxide for Paint), in addition to broadening their European and Asia exposure (some 26% of ICI sales now come from Asia). BASF could afford it, but we feel is less likely given the three large acquisitions made in 2006. PPG and Reliance of India are also possibilities.
NH: With no shortage of likely interest, and a robust ICI response, the pressure on the share price will likely be upwards. Recent deals in the industry have reached high levels (BOC takeout at EV/EBITDA 12.5x, Engelhard on 13.1x and Quest on 15x). Applying 12.5x (say) to ICI suggests 700p, and if a bidding frenzy were to ensue, given the scarcity value of the assets etc 750p is not impossible and would represent 13.1x EBITDA. High, but not totally inconceivable, we believe.
PM: 750p – that is bullish
NH: would obviously need to be a bid battle to get the shares to that level
NH: I think if I were an ICI shareholder I would be holding on to my shares
NH: I can’t see there being much downside
PM: Ok, that’s enough ICI for now. Could well keep us going over the summer, that one
NH: yep think this one could run
NH: and expect ICI to go on the offensive when they announce a trading statement later this week
PM: let’s move on
PM:
PM: Brief look at the wider market, then we should move to couple of comments below
NH: well, the ICI news has triggered another flurry of takeover speculation, which has underpinned the market
NH: got as high as 6,751 earlier
NH: now off 2.3 points at 6,730.1
NH: a light flurry of profit taking
NH: which is not surprising given the gains of last week
NH: ftse 100 rose 3.5%
PM: Might mention briefly that China hit another new high overnight
PM: My bear position there gets more expensive by the day
PM: And China Mobile are supposedly planning the world’s largest cash raising — listing stock in Shanghai as well as Hong Kong
PM: it will end in tears
PM:
PM: Alright — Paris Air Show for Greenback
PM: Have you ever been, Neil
NH: no. they don’t let me out of the office
PM: I’ve been Farnborough — years ago
PM: Had launch with an astronaut
PM: meant lunch
NH: all systems go!
NH: what’s the point of this???
PM: None whatsoever — just a nice day out
PM: Anyway — Rolls-Royce on the move this morning…
PM: up 7.25p at 554p
PM: Flurry of orders, including from Qatar Airways
PM: But, Neil reckons the real bullish support for RR involves the Airbus 350
NH: yeah, RR are the sole supply
NH: looks like Qatar have ordered 80 of the XWB models
NH: which is obviously good news for it
PM:
NH: Cornwall Trader wants some info on Tullow
PM: Rang the bell on this one on Friday
NH: yeah
NH: got our timing right
PM: Just the wrong bit of Africa
NH: we noted rumours of a positive drilling report in the pipeline from Uganda
PM: and what we actually got was some positive news from off-shore Ghana
NH: anyway the shares are up 44p to 453p which is the most important thing
PM: 
PM: that’s a rise of 10.8%
NH: biggest riser in the FTSE 250 at the moment
PM: Any more detail on this?
NH: Tullow say they have discovered a significant light oil accumulation
PM: What does that mean?
NH: that it could have found 300m barrels of oil
PM: I see why the shares up 10% now
NH: got a v good note from Evo Secs on this
NH: wanna see it?
PM: Go on
NH: Tullow has delivered a timely reminder that its exploration programme is not just about Uganda. The Mahogany-1 well offshore Ghana has discovered a significant light oil accumulation. The reserves could be in the range of 300m boe, possibly as high as 600m boe and materially ahead of Tullow\’s pre-drill expectation of 250m boe gross recoverable.
NH: Net to Tullow, today\’s announcement could easily add 25-40p. Also there are implications for the prospectivity of further wells in the Tano basin. Given the breadth and depth of Tullow\’s drilling programme we are raising our recommendation to Buy from Add with a new price target of 500p and recommend switching out of Cairn
NH: The Mahogany-1 well is in water depths of 1320m on the West Cape Three Points licence (22.9% net to Tullow). So far it has been drilled to 3683m and has encountered a gross hydrocarbon column of 270m with a net pay of 95m. It will be drilled to 4200m to test further prospective horizons. The well will then be suspended pending further evaluation and additional appraisal drilling.
NH: We are raising our target price for Tullow from 414p to 500p. Our core asset value is 214p with a further 83p for discoveries and appraisal. Pre the Mahogany success our risked exploration upside for Tullow was 117p. We had valued Mahogany on a risked basis at 2.5p (10p unrisked) net to Tullow assuming gross recoverable reserves of 100m boe.
NH: Today\’s announcement that Mahogany is materially bigger than our pre-drill expectations i.e. 300m+ boe suggests the shares could easily add 25-40p which would increase our old target price from 414p to 439-454p. Given the number of prospects coming up in the drilling programme we raise our target price to 500p.
PM:
PM: While we are blowing our own trumpet ….
PM: Just wanted to say well done on Carpetright
PM: Smoking Lord Harris of Peckham out
NH: yes Alphaville forced the Lord to confirm that he was working on plans for a MBO
PM: The shares spiked 30% on Friday as a result
NH: off a bit this morning, however.
NH: down 86p at £12.56
NH: think Friday’s rise was exacerbated by short sellers being forced to buy back their positions
PM: Any idea what Carpetright could go out at?
NH: analysts are saying that investors should not get too excited and not expect a bid much above current levels
PM: Why’s that?
NH: well at £13.40 for example, CPR shares would be trading on 21 time forward times earnings
NH: which is on the steep side for a retailer
PM: I’ll say — especially in the pedestrian business of selling carpets
NH: also Lord Harris has timed his buyout approach well
PM: What do you mean?
NH: assuming he bids, shareholders will be left with a choice of accepting an offer from him or keeping a shareholding in a company exposed to flagging consumer confidence
NH: remember it was only a month ago that Carpetright issued a profits warning
NH: Bridgewell Securities has done some work on the financials and here is how they might work
NH: Take-private financials
NH: At 1340p, Carpetright is capitalised at £910m.
Assuming a freehold value at £150m, £7m net debt and minimal pension deficit,
the ex property EV is c.£770m. Buying out third-party shareholders at this price
would leave net debt of c.£495m, with Lord Harris’s existing equity providing the
balance of the EV. This debt represents c.6.9x EBITDA with year one interest
cover of c.1.5x and fixed charge cover of c.1.3x
NH: This debt represents c.6.9x EBITDA with year one interest
cover of c.1.5x and fixed charge cover of c.1.3x. These multiples look relatively
stretched. Importantly, on the basis of such a structure and valuation, we
struggle to get to a 20% IRR over five years for an alternative private equity
bidder, suggesting that a counter bid at a level much higher is unlikely.
PM: Have we got anything by our old friend VC Ratty of Seymour Pierce?
NH: yep. Came out late Friday though
NH: still wanna see it
PM: Nah, don’t bother
PM:
PM: What else is moving?
NH: BHP Billiton is up 8p to £13.66p on the back of a story in The Times that its new management team are weighing a counter bid for Alcan
PM: OK
NH: still in the mining sector, Lonmin is up 53p to £42.22
NH: that’s on the back of Friday’s note from Morgan Stanley
NH: they put a £50.75 target price on the stock
PM: Jeepers
NH: also one of your favourites is up
PM: Which one?
NH: Scottish & Newcastle
NH: up 5p to 640p
NH: did go as high as 656p
PM: More takeover rumours I hope
NH: you remember last week Merrill Lynch put out a note on the chemicals industry
PM: Yep
PM: They said Akzo had the firepower to buy any of their rivals
NH: well, Merrill has done the same thing on the drinks industry this morning
NH: : issued a note called “how to profit from consolidation in the brewing industry”
PM: So how do you do that?
PM: Buy S&N?
NH: yep
NH: Bolt-on and minority acquisitions more likely near-term
On a stand-alone basis the brewers may not present a particularly exciting
investment case, but looking at the industry from a global perspective, we identify
near-term and long-term value opportunities. These are analysed in this report.
We believe that beer industry consolidation will continue, but in the near-term
expect to see the global brewers using their FCF and debt capacity to acquire
minority interests, and target the acquisitions of independent regional or national
brewers, rather than larger global brewer M&A combinations. The most obvious
opportunities are Castel (+$5bn) for SABMiller and AmBev (€15bn) for InBev.
NH: Carlsberg + S&N combination seems inevitable
NH: The revised Carlsberg Foundation charter allows the company to raise $10bn
equity (+ debt), enabling Carlsberg to buy S&N. Acquiring S&N would be >20%
earnings accretive to Carlsberg, assuming DKK1,250m cost synergies. The
likelihood of such a deal is high, but the timing is not certain. A trigger could be
relative share price performance - Carlsberg/S&N share price ratio above 115.
We raise S&N to a Buy with a 700p price target, adding 60p take-out premium. As
Carlsberg will be issuing mainly low voting B-shares we recommend a trade going
long the A-share ($3m daily trade), and short B-shares ($40m daily trade).
PM: Some interesting stuff in there
NH: there is
NH: also worth pointing out that Merrill is the second broker in a week to increase their target price on S&N to over 700p
NH: Credit Suisse upped theirs to 740p last week and like Merrill they were also citing takeover talk
PM: So you reckon something is in the air
NH: I do
NH: but whether it will come in time for you to win your bet with Dom Walsh of the Time I just don’t know
PM: 
PM:
PM: Right — greenback wants to see this Caz stuff on Invensys — do we have it yet?
NH: of course
NH: Invensys - [ISYS.L ISYS LN 373p] Outperform, Sector Neutral
NH: Following asset disposals, cost cutting and last year\’s rights issue, Invensys is no longer financially distressed and is now assuming a more “normal” profile. Indeed, with net debt of only £166m at the end of March 2007 , the group could be described as overcapitalised and we are forecasting that it will move into a net cash position by the end of FY2009E.
PM: That’s extraordinary — net cash by end 2009
PM: Er, this business was bust — all but bust
NH: The Controls business now appears to have turned the corner. Problems with quality and on-time delivery now appears to be firmly in the past, and the resulting improvement has enabled the Controls division to successfully implement price increases which we believe have been an important contributor to the improvement in the division\’s margins
NH: We expect that the management will take a very pragmatic approach to any further restructuring/improvements at the division. While the outlook for US residential construction is uncertain, Invensys took the opportunity again to point out that this accounts for only 10% of the division\’s sales and that progress elsewhere (eg price increases and the additional business won from Maytag as a result of the Whirlpool-Maytag merger) has helped to offset this.
PM: Right — thanks for that — but what about the Siemens bid stuff
PM: Does it make sense?
NH: well, they would be interested in Invensys’ rail business
NH: not so sure about the rest
NH: also one should not forget the huge pension fund attatched to Invensys
PM: Yes, but Siemens is not PE — remember your point on Akzo/ICI
NH: true
PM:
PM: anything else speculative?
NH: well there is a buzz around Biffa again
NH: this one will just not go away
NH: shares up 6.5p to 308.75p
PM: Wasn’t it tipped in one of the weekend papers
NH: yep but that’s not the reason the punters have been buying em this morning
NH: simply, they think Biffa is going to be taken out
NH: Veolia Environmental and Ferrovial are the latest names in the frame
PM: Thanks for that
PM:
PM: Okay, we need to wrap up soon — anything before we go??
NH: Phorm Inc
NH: for readers who did not tune in Friday
NH: we highlighted Phorm because it looked like a bit of throwback to the dot.com era
PM: Yep — loss making company raising cash at a significant premium to its share price
PM: Bubble stock
NH: Phorm is in the hot area of the ad industry at the moment
NH: context based advertising
NH: Anyway this morning we found that it raised £15m from a placing of new shares at £35
NH: to put that figure in perspective Phorm shares were trading at £24.27 this time a week ago
PM: So what’s this thing capped at now
NH: £380m
PM: and at that sort of valuation it needs to strike some big deals quick
NH: well, Friday’s statement did refer to heads of agreement being signed with several ISP’s
NH: hearing evil knievil is shorting Phorm
PM: Ah — do we have any extracts from his diary?
PM: This is Simon Cawkwell — bear raider
NH: we do. he is trying to figure out what the hell Phorm does and has appealed to his readers for help
NH: here’s an extract from this morning’s post
NH: Not one t1ps reader has attempted to explain what it is that Phorm (PHRX) actually does. Our only correspondent on the matter is a self proclaimed Northerner now living in Asia. I can understand that leaving the wastelands is a good move but moving to the jungle seems a bit extreme. My new pal seems to think that I cannot spell. This is incorrect. I can spell it is my diarist who attended only a minor public school. He also doubts that West Ham produces wine. This is a mistake. I am not sure what the vineyards are like in Silvertown but I have seen a bottle of the stuff. It tastes like urine but it exists. Well, Phorm must remain a mystery.
PM: Thanks for that. No help at all.
NH: i must admit we struggled to get our head round what Phorm does and why it is so exciting
NH: given the software is still in the development/testing phase
PM: Just before we finish — for Cornwall trader — Sanctuary
PM: We were racking our brains …
PM: To come up with the name….
NH: Crosby Capital is the name in the frame as a counter bidder
NH: this thing is run out of Hong Kong I think by a guy named Simon Fry, who used to be a serious player at Nomura
NH: company has close link to Andrew Regan’s
NH: in fact Regan’s Corvus Capital had a stake in this one for a while
PM: My gut instinct says it is dangerous to chase this one far about the 20p a share that Universal have put firmly on the table
NH: shares up 1.25p at 21.25p at the moment
PM: Hmm….
PM: Right we are off — thank you for joining us. Do come back tomorrow at 11am for the next edition of Markets Live.
NH: assuming we still have jobs
PM: yes, we got visit from the top brass few mins ago
PM: seeya
